"Tanki Classic" release

[Xsader 37]

https://tankiclassic.com/

 

Can some mod, or a player with an inside info, provide some hints for when are these "Tanki Classic" going to be released and what period of the game are they going to represent ?

There is a serious debate regarding this on the Ru forum, but nothing more than rumors, speculations and expectations ...

 

[Spy 14,687]

The information surrounding Tanki Classic is very limited at the moment, to pretty much anyone. I wouldn't expect anything for the upcoming months at the very least.

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 11/28/2024 at 1:44 PM, Xsader said:

Can some mod, or a player with an inside info, provide some hints for when are these "Tanki Classic" going to be released and what period of the game are they going to represent ?

There is a serious debate regarding this on the Ru forum, but nothing more than rumors, speculations and expectations ...

 

everyone that has insider info also 99,9% has a funny thing called NDA attached to their name.

I'm sure tanki lawyers made sure that if you break the NDA you'll be in more trouble than you'll ever want. so for anyone with actual info it is absolutely not worth it just to give some random info that you'll likely know in 1-2 months anyway. 

 

and if you want some info then here it is. it's an old version of the game. whoopy. what else do you need to know

Edited November 28, 2024 by Hypersomnia

[LambSauce 1,883]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:25 PM, Hypersomnia said:

everyone that has insider info also 99,9% has a funny thing called NDA attached to their name.

I'm sure tanki lawyers made sure that if you break the NDA you'll be in more trouble than you'll ever want. so for anyone with actual info it is absolutely not worth it just to give some random info that you'll likely know in 1-2 months anyway. 

 

and if you want some info then here it is. it's an old version of the game. whoopy. what else do you need to know

Actually there's quite a bit of information on it.

 

[Son_Goku 514]

What's funny is, in the video they mentioned that Tanki Classic won't have the Legend rank. They added Legend November 9th, 2016, so it shouldn't be any version after that. They also said that paints and protection will be separated, and that update happened July 13th, 2016, so it shouldn't be anything before that.

Unless they're adding whatever feature they consider classic, this could mean that Tanki Classic will be some version of Tanki from between July 13th to November 9th, 2016.

 

Spoiler

https://en.tankiforum.com/topic/327891-paint-separation-update/

https://en.tankiforum.com/topic/341036-the-legend-rank-is-here/

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Son_Goku

[LambSauce 1,883]

On 11/28/2024 at 10:29 PM, Son_Goku said:

Unless they're adding whatever feature they consider classic, this could mean that Tanki Classic will be some version of Tanki from between July 13th to November 9th, 2016.

It will be a separate version, not based on any single point in time.

[WieLKo-PoLski 318]

 

[Sword-of-Damocles 83]

I hope the tanki classic has the same interface as the flash interface because if it's more like current html5 then all this hype would've been for nothing.

[ok_hand 95]

what's the tl;dr?

[krokorok 835]

On 12/8/2024 at 11:52 PM, ok_hand said:

what's the tl;dr?

Too long, didnt read. People use it to say they prefer a quick summary over something super extensive that requires too much time to go through.

Like that 3 hr interview with Hazel

Spoiler

 

Edited December 8, 2024 by krokorok

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 5:56 PM, krokorok said:

Too long, didnt read. People use it to say they prefer a quick summary over something super extensive that requires too much time to go through.

I know what it means. I'm asking what's the tl;dr of the interview 

[krokorok 835]

On 12/9/2024 at 12:39 AM, ok_hand said:

I know what it means. I'm asking what's the tl;dr of the interview 

Oh, I thought u didnt know what the abbrevation means, it came around that way xD.

My best guess is the one who dared to do it died midway, and others have since been scared to watch the whole thing...

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/9/2024 at 3:39 AM, ok_hand said:

I know what it means. I'm asking what's the tl;dr of the interview 

Well, technically you're asking for a tl;dw.
I'm about 1.5 hours into the Russian interview. There's a lot of repetition and talk about nothing, but here are the main points I remembered:
(Edit: ok I finished it, so the below is a complete, though somewhat rough, summary)

• Tanki Online Peak Concurrent Players (PCU) happened around late 2014. Players claim that it was anywhere between 90k and 200k, but the official number is 132k. However, devs later reworked the counter and in reality it was probably closer to 100k.
• Tanki's player base has been dwindling ever since the PCU moment, but that does NOT mean that Tanki was the best in 2014 and the quality went downhill. Therefore, Tanki Classic doesn't have to use the 2014 version of Tanki.
• Tanki player base started reducing for a number of reasons, most importantly:
  - The business directors decided to redirect resources into other projects (Tanki X and other new games), so Tanki Online was getting no content updates.
  - The internet moved away from banner-based advertising, which is how Tanki got most of its audience. Advertising became ineffective and was completely stopped.
  - Youtube changed its algorithm and far fewer people were discovering the game through youtube videos.
• Despite the playerbase reducing around 10x, the game's revenue has been affcted much less, due to monetisation becoming far more effective in recent years, allowing the game to continue being developed without cutting too many costs.
• Opex is very pessimistic about expected users for Tanki Classic. After the initial hype, he expects to see around 1500 daily active users, but hopes that it will be more. Nonetheless, 1500 is enough for the project to be viable.
• Monetisation is a big question. Tanki Classic can't have content updates (new skins, equipment, paints), because then it will stop being classic, so the only remaining items to sell are "infinite" things like supplies, Premium Account and crystals.
• Developers could, in theory, create Tanki Classic using Flash, but it's a terrible idea for a number of reasons:
  - There is almost no advantage in using Flash, because HTML5 can be used to create almost the exact same game more efficiently.
  - If both games (main TO and Classic) use HTML5, it means that Tanki Classic can get technical updates along with the main game, improving its QoL and security.
  - No self-respecting developer wants to make things in Flash, so finding such devs would be difficult and expensive.
  - Accessibility is an issue. An HTML5 game loads in any browser with one click. A Flash game needs Flash to be installed, then the game's client to be downloaded, and on top of that every browser warns users of the risks of using Flash when they attempt to install it.
• Most importantly, the reason devs moved Tanki Online from Flash to HTML5 is to avoid legal issues. Since Flash has serious security flaws, if developers were to actively encourage users to download a client with known security vulnerabilities, it would be extremely easy for users to sue the company (and win) on grounds of the company promoting software that could harm users' personal data.
• Tanki Online actually had terrible, completely unbalanced gameplay a decade ago. The P2W issues were far worse than today, and the only reason why Tanki built up such a large audience in its early years was because it was the only in-browser 3D online game, so it had a monopoly on its target audience for a few years. People asking for "old Tanki" to be returned simply forgot how bad it used to be.
• The whole essense of "old tanki" is the idea that you join as a weak noob that gets abused by big scary high ranks all the time, you go through the hard grind while aspiring to become the high rank, and when you become the high rank with a powerful tank, you want to go and enjoy your turn of abusing weak noobs. This only works when the game is constantly getting new players, and won't work with the new Tanki Classic, which will have a stable, slowly declining audience.
• Tanki Classic will be primarily monetised through a special version of Premium Account. The game will still be playable for free (and all battles+equipment will be available), but the paid subscription will unlock numerous extra bonuses and features. Opex emphasised that the subsciption will be far, far cheaper than Premium Account in Tanki Online, and he expects most of the true fans of "old tanki", who have been demanding and old version to be returned, to put their money where their mouth is and pay for the subscription, because the revenue from this subscription will go directly into supporting Tanki Classic itself.
• Tanki Classic will not be a single old version of the game that's 100% true to the original. Instead, it will be a remake of the game, which will include all of the best features from earlier years, which the players want to see. It will aim to recreate the original authentic experience without any of the negatives. 

 

tl;dr of the above tl;dw:

• Tanki Classic will not be based on any single previous version of Tanki Online 
• Tanki Online is still doing great for its age and will continue to develop
• Tanki Classic monetisation will focus on a type of premium account
• Flash is bad
• "Old Tanki" is horrible P2W

 

The most important point was discussed at the very end. Opex pointed out that it's useless to argue about which year was the greatest time in Tanki Online, because everyone has different answers and there is no correct answer.

Instead, he requests everyone to share which specific features (old or current) you like in Tanki Online and would like to see added to Tanki Classic. Developers will be sorting through as much feedback as they possibly can in order to find out what the players really want to see in Tanki Classic, and they will do their best to create a remake in a form that pleases as many people as they can.

[Cleric 1,385]

Basically... the devs are being the copycat, again.

You heard about the Overwatch classic? Well, here comes the so call Tanki classic, period.

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/9/2024 at 5:15 PM, Cleric said:

Basically... the devs are being the copycat, again.

You heard about the Overwatch classic? Well, here comes the so call Tanki classic, period.

The way you said it makes it seem like a problem. Why do you think so?

[krokorok 835]

On 12/9/2024 at 2:15 PM, Cleric said:

Basically... the devs are being the copycat, again.

You heard about the Overwatch classic? Well, here comes the so call Tanki classic, period.

Not a bad thing per se, more like a safer play. Lots of people and companies get success from copying others and getting inspiration from established names. I think it is actually more logical for relatively small company with far more limited resources like Alternativa to wait, see and analyze if the big trend of "return of classic version of games" is popular and sustanaible to be copied. Especially more true after the Tanki X fiasco.

The way you make it sound, it feels like no matter what they do, they just cant win. If they continue this modern Tanki Online version its bad, if they provide a classic version which people asked them for its just some cheap copycat.

[Cleric 1,385]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:52 PM, Maf said:

The way you said it makes it seem like a problem. Why do you think so?

Well, it depends how you approach that.

But that tells me a lot that these groups of devs/product owners are not innovative enough to make their own ideas to keep their market share or keep up with the market. Instead, they blame the environment for causing the business to gradually go downhill.

 

Now, in addition to their "aggressive" earning model, they decided to copy others' ideas, because that causes way less work of course, but the question is, how many times did they go for a similar approach without proper thinking and that didn't end well?

Some examples from the past:

• When mobile games get popular, they try to make one with a new IP, and well, it dies pretty quickly
• When they saw the success of Overwatch 1, they tried to copy its idea and make Tanki X super competitive. Well, guess what? It drives the players away from an already small enough player base

 

On 12/9/2024 at 7:01 PM, krokorok said:

If they continue this modern Tanki Online version its bad, if they provide a classic version which people asked them for its just some cheap copycat.

I never claimed the 1st part of the statement, although I do believe that if they are not gonna change their current direction.

 

In fact, the idea of insisting on keeping this game a browser game feels stupid enough to me. Who TF play browser games, since like half a decade ago... And this alone impacts many other factors and decision-making, e.g. the visuals of this game (it is utterly bad by today's standard)

That's just one of many questionable decisions made by these folks.

[krokorok 835]

On 12/9/2024 at 2:46 PM, Cleric said:

I never claimed the 1st part of the statement, although I do believe that if they are not gonna change their current direction.

 

In fact, the idea of insisting on keeping this game a browser game feels stupid enough to me. Who TF play browser games, since like half a decade ago... And this alone impacts many other factors and decision-making, e.g. the visuals of this game (it is utterly bad by today's standard)

That's just one of many questionable decisions made by these folks.

On 12/9/2024 at 2:39 PM, Cleric said:

Well, it depends how you approach that.

But that tells me a lot that these groups of devs/product owners are not innovative enough to make their own ideas to keep their market share or keep up with the market. Instead, they blame the environment for causing the business to gradually go downhill.

 

Now, in addition to their "aggressive" earning model, they decided to copy others' ideas, because that causes way less work of course, but the question is, how many times did they go for a similar approach without proper thinking and that didn't end well?

Some examples from the past:

• When mobile games get popular, they try to make one with a new IP, and well, it dies pretty quickly
• When they saw the success of Overwatch 1, they tried to copy its idea and make Tanki X super competitive. Well, guess what? It drives the players away from an already small enough player base

That seems like a fair assesment, I checked their other project, I believed it was called King Hardcore and it looked like a cheap Fortnite knockoff you would find on Miniclip in 2018 before it closed in 2020. Unfortunately, I feel like Tanki was their lucky and unexpected break that they will never be able to recreate. They dont even feel like a game developing studio, because for over 15 years, they  kind of only live from this unexpected Tanki legacy.

[Cleric 1,385]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:13 PM, krokorok said:

That seems like a fair assesment, I checked their other project, I believed it was called King Hardcore and it looked like a cheap Fortnite knockoff you would find on Miniclip in 2018 before it closed in 2020. Unfortunately, I feel like Tanki was their lucky and unexpected break that they will never be able to recreate. They dont even feel like a game developing studio, because for over 15 years, they  kind of only live from this unexpected Tanki legacy.

Exactly, and now they even struggle to maintain this legacy. I even doubt whether they understand the customer and the market. Like do they even understand why Tanki was a successful project back in the day, and why a similar formula doesn't work today? Not to mention answering questions like "whether a feature that makes a particular game successful will yield the same success if placed in their own game".

 

All that is saving them from going bankrupt is that there is indeed a group of people who are willing to pour thousands of dollars into this game. I pity their wealth management decisions (or perhaps that's not even their own money for some of them), but, hey, that's not my money.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Cleric

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/9/2024 at 5:39 PM, Cleric said:

But that tells me a lot that these groups of devs/product owners are not innovative enough to make their own ideas to keep their market share or keep up with the market. Instead, they blame the environment for causing the business to gradually go downhill.

If Opex is to be believed (and I do believe him), none of this is true.

• Alternativa started as an innovative technology company. The things they were working on before becomign a game dev studio were extremely innovative in their field. It's this innovation that allowed them to create the first ever full 3D, completely in-browser online game.
• As a for-profit company, they also study the market and aim to optimise their project's monetisation. If you're a game dev and you see another game dev studio implement a new feature in their game that proves to be extremely successful, not "copying" the same feature into your own game doesn't earn you any honour. It just makes you struggle financially.
  Besides, while a concept as a whole may be copied, its implementation is often completely different. For example, the way lootboxes were added to Tanki is different from Overwatch and provides players with a better experience, but I won't get into these details now.
• They blame the environment because they have the facts to support it. For example, would you really argue that all popular browsers unanimously dropping support for Flash and causing the demise of the Flash version is the Tanki devs' own fault?
• Opex knows that developers made mistakes in the past and he admits it. I'm not sure where you get the sentiment that devs think that all their decisions are correct and flawless.

On 12/9/2024 at 7:01 PM, Cleric said:

Like do they even understand why Tanki was a successful project back in the day, and why a similar formula doesn't work today?

This was discussed in quite a lot of detail in the video I summarised. However, since you're saying this in such a condescending manner, it appears that you know the answer? So, in your opinion, why was Tanki a successful project, and why doesn't a similar formula work today?

[Cleric 1,385]

On 12/10/2024 at 5:40 AM, Maf said:

This was discussed in quite a lot of detail in the video I summarised. However, since you're saying this in such a condescending manner, it appears that you know the answer? So, in your opinion, why was Tanki a successful project, and why doesn't a similar formula work today?

First of all, never trust the entirety of what is officially announced by a corporation/company. A lot of the time, that's not the full picture nor 100% facts.

Tanki works back in the late 2000s. At that time, they are able to capture the middle ground between dedicated gamers with their decked-out rig and 3A games, and casual folks who play browser games from time to time, more leaning towards the casual side. An unmet customer need.

While today, the previous unmet customer need is no longer unmet. Like I said previously, who TF play browser games since like half a decade ago? Casually players have gotten used to using a "proper" channel like downloading a game client via Steam, with some moving to consoles and mobile. Yet, the team insisted on supporting browsers, which in return severely restricted their technical options and what they could do from it. For example, the graphics, which also affect their ability to capture new customers. This, IMO, is the biggest mistake they have made.

 

One thing I would like to point out is that Alternativa seems to be very hype-driven. There doesn't seem to be a clear long-term plan of how their flagship project should proceed in the next 5, 10, 15 years. The current main monetization method is implemented in a way that is repetitive and will yield quick ROI, but could be potentially harmful in the long run. Basic infra to support this project is barely maintained. They occasionally just randomly throw out ideas similar because "oh it seems to be working in someone else's project" out of nowhere. And the list goes on. 

This is further illustrated by they "request everyone to share which specific features (old or current) you like in Tanki Online and would like to see added to Tanki Classic". While this seems to be a simple RFC, the fact that such a question is being raised publicly suggests that they don't really have a concrete plan on how this project should proceed, nor really sure what the customers want. This shouldn't be the type of question raised in such a context.

Edited December 10, 2024 by Cleric

[Maf 32,300]

I don't have enough information to argue about your other points, but I do want to address one thing:

On 12/10/2024 at 5:00 PM, Cleric said:

Yet, the team insisted on supporting browsers, which in return severely restricted their technical options and what they could do from it. For example, the graphics, which also affect their ability to capture new customers. This, IMO, is the biggest mistake they have made.

Opex said multiple times that being available in browsers without any downloads is Tanki's main selling point, even after all these years. They have the data, so they know how many people play via browser. If that number was insignificant, then I'm sure they wouldn't put so much effort into keeping the game playable in browsers.

Besides, browser support is just one of the advantages of HTML5, out of many.

[ok_hand 95]

Why the Devs are spending any resource on Tanki Classic instead of updating the current version is beyond me. I think there's 1 more turret that hasn't been updated to HD yet (Striker), the design and visuals of the maps are outdated, and new content release is very slow. 

[ElRafaJuega 6]

I have hopes for Tanki Classic, and I actually like it better. The regular Tanki Online game is too overloaded in my opinion, and I don't have a very powerful computer and it runs very poorly, and I can hardly do anything. So Tanki Classic would be great for me right now, and it's not for nothing that the saying goes, "Less is More." And by the way, I play from the Browser.

[Cleric 1,385]

On 12/11/2024 at 1:17 AM, Maf said:

I don't have enough information to argue about your other points, but I do want to address one thing:

Opex said multiple times that being available in browsers without any downloads is Tanki's main selling point, even after all these years. They have the data, so they know how many people play via browser.

Like I said previously, never fully trust what is being announced from a company. The entire point of public affair is let the public know/believe what the company want them to know/believe. And that's not necessary cover the full picture, nor 100% facts. That's PA 101.

If you haven't noticed yet, every statement coming from you on this topic is basically rephrase of what Alternativa has announced. Opex said, Opex said, Opex said... There is no thinking, reaching, and analysis involved at all.

 

Have you taken a look what's the market share browser game is among other sectors like PC games, mobile games, and console games, etc.?

Have you made any calculations, with an optimistic assumption that, let's say, 70% of the current players are playing via browsers, how many players are there really? And compared to the uncaptured market, what's the actual percentage it is in fact contributing to?

Have you taken a look what HTML5 (that's actually a very generic term) actually is about? And how the industry commonly used it for? And for games specifically, what kind of games are developed in HTML5?

 

On 12/11/2024 at 1:17 AM, Maf said:

If that number was insignificant, then I'm sure they wouldn't put so much effort into keeping the game playable in browsers.

Besides, browser support is just one of the advantages of HTML5, out of many.

That's a reverse causation. They choose HTML5 mainly because they want to support browser env, not the other way around. They did so because they misjudged the market trend, especially on 2017 where Flash is announced to be EOL. And naturally, there will be people prefer not to download anything if given as an option. I have no doubt that there is a considerable percentage of players is playing this game via browsers. But this is a different concepts than "there are still considerable amount of people playing browser games".

If your believe is to be believed, then we won't be seeing a sustain drop of players through out the years. And there won't be so many failed side projects. The fact states itself, they misjudged, multiple times throughout the history.

 

Now for Tanki Classic, it is going to a very similar path to those failed projects. And based on the announced info so far, I can see more potential risks than benefits involving this project.

Edited December 11, 2024 by Cleric