Reduce power of garage supplies

[JROCKS 46]

I know the DEVs said it .... but, apart that DEVs words are not Holy Bible, do you really think that the concept of skills means "let's think when to press 2 or 3 or 4 button and let's think where to wait 15 seconds before pressing the second button?

Do you really think that this is what "skills and strategy" means in Tanki game? That sounds quite reductive to me!

And also DEVs said that all this "huge brain effort" in calculating seconds is supposed to be just a little part of things to think about when playing!

Did i ever say that it was the concept? Nope... I said you had to be smart, anticipate, use your skill and knowledge to know when to use them. NOT ONCE didi say it was a big effort, or that it was a skill to know when to use drugs. I said it was a multitude of things. Obviously English isn't your first language, so ill cut you some slack, but in the future, be sure to read all the words i used.

[JROCKS 46]

I appreciate 40Player as a person and as a player.

 

Everyone agree that often there are some unbalancing in weapons effect (as he said), in fact a huge work of DEVs is concentrated on data analysis and re-balancing of weapon to give appropriate equilibrium, with respect of weapons unique characteristics (as DEVs said many times, even on V-Logs). This because (DEVs say) it is difficult to find right balances just on tests or numbers bases, so they need periods of practical field tests (periods of players use) to analyse data and make adjustments if necessary. It is a continuous work of balancing.

Please DEVs correct me if I am wrong. Thank you

 

But all this has nothing to do with drugs exaggerate overpower or their limited/unlimited use

What does anything you just said have to do with this topic? I fail to see any connection except for the last line. You said so yourself that all of what you said had nothing to do with the drug topic, so you basically shut yourself down there.. Drugs are enhancements, they are MEANT to be overpowered! There is a limited use of drugs, and since Dev's have kept drugs the same for so long with very few and minimal changes, it goes to show that theres something that they see that you fail to see. As they said, drugs will not change, so you may as well start trying to be happy with how they are, or leave the game? What you do is up to you. Anyway, im leaving this topic, as it is pointless. I suggest you learn to be happy with how things are, and drop the subject. Supplies are enhancements, and they are meant to be over powered, so there is nothing wrong with it. Goodbye.

[angelokiller17645 23]

they should take the drugging option off

[Maf 32,302]

I know the DEVs said it .... but, apart that DEVs words are not Holy Bible, do you really think that the concept of skills means "let's think when to press 2 or 3 or 4 button and let's think where to wait 15 seconds before pressing the second button?

Do you really think that this is what "skills and strategy" means in Tanki game? That sounds quite reductive to me!

And also DEVs said that all this "huge brain effort" in calculating seconds is supposed to be just a little part of things to think about when playing!

There is definitely more strategy involved now. In order to get most of my supplies I now look around the battlefield and remember which supply boxes fall and when. I activate own my supplies and go to drop locations to pick up drops at the same time - that way you can easily get a full drug set and instantly re-activate supplies when the time runs out. Remembering which boxes fell where and when is the real skill aspect here.

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

I find this topic pointless. You guys keep saying that the MAJORITY of players are unhappy with this game and not satisfied, but i have only seen around 5 KEY people that are mad about this, while the others just agree and move on because they know that life is unfair, and they just have to deal with it. I suggest we all do the same as it has been said that nothing is going to change. Show me that a majority of the players on this game (out of 45 million enrolled) are unhappy, and maybe ill change my mind.

If I'm a KEY player than this place has lots to worry about, and Lord knows I have complained, and "KEY" players a majority will NEVER make.

 

Ther is a disconnect here, a clear one, that needs to be recognized.  There is crowd that sees this game as combat, and another that see's it as sport.  I think that is the point being missed here.

 

I see a Thunder, I see the range it is at, I'm in a shaft, I have a fairly good idea of what that thing can do from there to me.  DP and all of a sudden all planning and tactical decisions are off, two shots and I'm dead. Without the predictability of understanding the opponents standard capabilities, this game becomes one of two things, a constant unknow that allows for no capitalization of thought and planning, or two, an arms race of drugs.

 

Here is a perfect example of an oblivous commentary to the fact:

 

 

There is definitely more strategy involved now. In order to get most of my supplies I now look around the battlefield and remember which supply boxes fall and when. I activate own my supplies and go to drop locations to pick up drops at the same time - that way you can easily get a full drug set and instantly re-activate supplies when the time runs out. Remembering which boxes fell where and when is the real skill aspect here.

I mean really, CALCULATE HOW TO DOUBLE UP THE DURATION OF YOUR DRUGGED STATE?  This is skill?  This is what they want encourage, people recalling where stupid boxes fell recently?  I mean, I could go on and elaborate, AT PAINFUL AND GRAND LENGTH all the problems wih the idea that the skill in this game revolves around such things, but in the end, the problem here are people who think vs people who just want o win at all costs and are willing to sell out to supplies to do it, because no matter what you say about the skills revolving around supplies, someone who figures out how to carefully consume speed so cop's bullets don't kill them for a longer period of time leaves the person still a complete and total criminal.  The idea of planning for power over an opponent that is not innate to your equipment makes the equipment itself almost not important, Rico or Smokey, they're DP'd and they hit and tada, 3 shots and you're dead in some cases, sometimes less.  Thsi is it?  I can't rely on the fact that I can see an enemy, gauge the hull and turret and decide that engaging will yield the results desired given the terrian and their ability to fight back?  If a stupid Smokeyh and pop me in 3 shots from across the map with no criticals, there is a huge problem.  Oh wait, I could just learn how to use drugs too and then I could go about apply said logic, but then, oh, I have to consume, pay to play.  Regardless if I have the funds, the dynamic of using drugs makes everything unpredictable and worthless for the sake of stragegy and tactics, all I can do is play when my cool downs are not running, because now I'm a drugger and can only engage when I'm statted beyond my tanks normal specs.

 

So yeah, I'll stop here, point is, drugs suck, they make the purchase of equipment and upgrades nearly useless often times, and all you apologists out there know full and well the IS a good reason to get rid of drug, ands game play.

 

Done.

[Brubook 1,161]

Did i ever say that it was the concept? Nope... I said you had to be smart, anticipate, use your skill and knowledge to know when to use them. NOT ONCE didi say it was a big effort, or that it was a skill to know when to use drugs. I said it was a multitude of things. Obviously English isn't your first language, so ill cut you some slack, but in the future, be sure to read all the words i used.

You write: "... use your skills to know when to use drugs ..."

and then "... I never said it was a skill to know when to use drugs ... "

 

Boh .... maybe English is not my first language!!

 

You wrote:

JROCKS, on 20 Apr 2015 - 18:31, said:

....... because the whole smart cooldowns update was so that you had to use SKILL to know what drugs to use, and when. .......

To me this means that it is a SKILL to know what drug to use and when .... but maybe I am wrong!!

[Brubook 1,161]

What does anything you just said have to do with this topic? I fail to see any connection except for the last line. You said so yourself that all of what you said had nothing to do with the drug topic, so you basically shut yourself down there.. Drugs are enhancements, they are MEANT to be overpowered! There is a limited use of drugs, and since Dev's have kept drugs the same for so long with very few and minimal changes, it goes to show that theres something that they see that you fail to see. As they said, drugs will not change, so you may as well start trying to be happy with how they are, or leave the game? What you do is up to you. Anyway, im leaving this topic, as it is pointless. I suggest you learn to be happy with how things are, and drop the subject. Supplies are enhancements, and they are meant to be over powered, so there is nothing wrong with it. Goodbye.

JROCKS, that was the answer on the 40player lines you quoted! Again, read first!

 

As drugs are meant to be overpowering .... why don't set a 10x multiplier? Why don't have drugs that make you 10 times stronger or more powerful? Don't think in a black/white way ... there are a lot of greys in between!

 

Here we are discussing on that "overpowering" amount ... read previous posts!

 

Accept or leave ... again black or white mind!! And again, if you read back you will see proper answers for this too!

[racer22_online 206]

Another idea - how about on the 'Stats' screen at the end of a game (or even on the Tab key) adding a column showing the number of garage drugs used by each tank (just a total will do).

Might shame a few into using less garage drugs!

(Note I think all additional columns on the Stats page should be optional - controlled in the settings page.)

Or at least these stats will confirm to the rest of us what's going on.  I.e. more likely help us escape games containing heavy drug users and find better balanced games.

Knowledge is power.

Lack of knowledge breeds Fear Uncertainly and Doubt.

 

 

I would hope we all see good games from time to time - I certainly get loads - all this drug chat is about trying to reducing the number of games that get 'spoiled' by a few druggers.  As many have said it's the close games (win or lose) that are the most fun.  Drugging by some users often prevents the game being 'close'.

The best games can be seen as a 'sport'.  For Tanki to be a sport - you need to try and get a balance, which TO has done to the tanks and ranks and the maps - but look what happened to Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France - brought that sport into disrepute!  and not entirely his fault either as far as I can perceive.  Over use of garage drugs, particularly Health Packs on the winning team damages the game.

 

As for the idea of only letting the losing side use garage drugs - sure this helps the losing side catch up.

Then when the scores are level or when a side is winning, they can no longer use garage drugs - this is a simple concept and simple to program - I just ask to make it a battle 'OPTION' in standard mode until Pro mode is more popular at all ranks.  And because no-one knows if it will work or not - I ask that it be trialled as a battle setup "Option" for a week in standard mode.  Then those who don't like it can avoid it.

I would love a clever programmed 'monitoring system' of the team scoring to increase the smart cooldown period for the leading side - because this is more 'graded' - but I fear that TO is too busy with Unity to do this at present.

Helping the losing team in this way will also encourage more of the skilled tankers to join the losing side.  At present I suspect the most skilled tankers join only the side most likely to win - and in doing so this makes the sides even more imbalanced.  I know, because sometimes I do this myself when I need 'easy' crystals.

 

(Interesting that in the old days we could at least 'name the battle' and put on "no druggers" or "no supplies") to warn them to keep out!)  -  this proposed scoreboard would keep a check on the 'over-users'.

[racer22_online 206]

Or why don't all us non druggers all start new accounts and put _NS as the last 3 letters on our account name.

Then we spread the word this means No Supplies.  I.e. in detail this means field dropped supplies are fine but using garage drugs is a no no.

This way it's easy to spot the NS battles and we can remind non NS players to get out (even if they promise to be good!)

Power to the NS users I say!

-Racer22_NS - there you go, I've set mine up already.  (I love being a 'recruit' = no drugs! = good balance.)  Only gets tricky after Warrant Officer.

However, this does give Tanki a chance to ban us all in one go! - until they find that 90% of users all use _NS!

[Brubook 1,161]

Another idea - how about on the 'Stats' screen at the end of a game (or even on the Tab key) adding a column showing the number of garage drugs used by each tank (just a total will do).

Might shame a few into using less garage drugs!

(Note I think all additional columns on the Stats page should be optional - controlled in the settings page.)

Or at least these stats will confirm to the rest of us what's going on.  I.e. more likely help us escape games containing heavy drug users and find better balanced games.

Knowledge is power.

Lack of knowledge breeds Fear Uncertainly and Doubt.

 

This is another great idea!!!

 

I remind that when I tell drugging players that they drugs insanely, most of them use to find many creative excuses for they drug .... like they are ashamed for drugging and they need a justification for that!

 

Numbers (on tab key) would makes facts clear for everyone ... and for players like me would be easier to avoid bad (in my opinion) battles where are present excessive druggers, without wasting time entering and seeing that drugging in useless battles!

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Making the use of drugs a reason to be ashamed, would undermine tanki's business model.

 

Therefor it was proposed to promote the pro pass more intensively, so that the tankers that don't drug and want to be apart from druggers have to pay something as well.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Making the use of drugs a reason to be ashamed, would undermine tanki's business model.

 

Therefor it was proposed to promote the pro pass more intensively, so that the tankers that don't drug and want to be apart from druggers have to pay something as well.

Yes... although, then it is not really a free-to-play game, is it?

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

Yes... although, then it is not really a free-to-play game, is it?

you do not _have_ to pay, if you do not like to :p

[Mr.SV.ENS 738]

Remove drugs =remove buyers= death of TO

[Baby_Sam 614]

Remove drugs =remove buyers= death of TO

Actually, our first priority is removing the posts of the people who can't/don't read.

[RustyNail 1,538]

you do not _have_ to pay, if you do not like to :P

Then let me put it in another way...

 

Free-to-lose / pay-to-win game, isn't it? Seriously.

[racer22_online 206]

Just summing up my conclusion on this:

 

Well said: Baby_Sam - almost every entry we make in this string, we have to keep repeating: - none of us have any problem with drugs being in the TO game.  All I want is to be able choose the type of battle as a game OPTION (garage drugs v no garage drugs).  This way both sides are kept happy (and we want to keep TO happy (lots of revenue.)  ('Pro mode' wait - read on...)

And with battle field air drop 'drugs' - I would be the first to complain if anyone tried to remove them.  Air drop supplies - especially Health Packs are like mini control points and add greatly to tactical activities and general 'spice'.

and I have to constantly say - that yes Pro Mode IS the long term answer - but only when it becomes popular and we have enough 'standard shaped' Pro Mode battles 'available' at all levels.  I don't have time (impatient) to create fresh Pro Mode battles - this is why providing a simple no garage drug 'OPTION' to the standard mode is the quickest and most effective solution right now so that we all have a choice.  The druggers go to the garage drug battles and the non-druggers go to the non garage drug battles = simple.

Then all tankers vote with their feet (or mouse).  (Note to TO, the spending tankers will still buy MU, turrets etc. even if they stop using garage drugs).

 

And yes, TO have been very good in making a first attempt at making Pro Mode more popular.  I speculated that 500 crystals may be enough - but it's clear with the large number of options in Pro Mode this is a hard nut to crack and will take time.  We have provided lots of ideas to help TO provide 'standard' 'Pro Mode' battles so we can find one to join - and I will try harder to create a few.  If we could all agree on a server, this might help us find them more quickly.  Or provide a filter list to help find Pro Mode battles no matter what server they're on.

We all want this game to be a success and I want TO to make lots of money - they deserve it.  Why not sell 'cosmetic' items for our tanks - and I want one of those TO T shirts!  (Keep special versions for competition winners only).  I want to fly a 'jolly roger' on my tank (I would buy this) - e.g. when I'm starting a new account (e.g. Racer22_NS) (No garage Supplies) then the Newbie's understand they're fighting an experienced player (so they don't get disillusioned.  (Strangely I still don't win all my battles at corporal :0) - I suspect other experienced players are doing the same as me or I'm not as good as I think I am.)  (I'm an ex amateur r/c racing car driver who always wanted a gun on his car for those frustrating days when I can't get passed someone and everything seems to be going wrong :0)  TO is the answer.

We also have to find out why the number of players has gone down recently?  Maybe it's best to compare year on year? or maybe if it's because of the OP (none sporting) effects of over 'garage drug' use? Then Tanki better pay more attention to ways of getting them back.

 

And I have to repeat - even if I had unlimited garage drugs, I still prefer not to use them! because too much 'imbalance' is not good sport.  However, air dropped supplies have a 'collection' time delay and more skill is needed to make use of them or defend against them ('hide' for 40 seconds when a Thunder gets DP :0).

I will still play TO as it is now - it's just I like to help make it better for me (old git), my son (12) and anyone else who loves the game (this is what the Internet was invented for!)

[Rohrmeister 1,535]

last days I had to rank up a startaccount, as I needed it to collect votes by my clans members on certain topics. So I played 10h M0..

- There are next to no druggers

- I really found a full (!) pro battle with about 8x8 players TDM (I think it was cross)

- as I asked why they have propasses, they told me it was cause of the sales and due to daily gifts.

 

But honestly.. those guys drive by pickups without taking them as they do not know about the power they give. I remember I was once the same :) Also for a starter like them, different default values in the pro battle checkboxes would be good.

[fufususumumu1 240]

I know the DEVs said it .... but, apart that DEVs words are not Holy Bible, do you really think that the concept of skills means "let's think when to press 2 or 3 or 4 button and let's think where to wait 15 seconds before pressing the second button?

Do you really think that this is what "skills and strategy" means in Tanki game? That sounds quite reductive to me!

And also DEVs said that all this "huge brain effort" in calculating seconds is supposed to be just a little part of things to think about when playing!

kinda like a side skill. you dont really have to be an Albert Einstein to know which drug at the right time, but it does time maybe a bit of thinking into it. like thinking twice before clicking repair button because then you have to wait for cooldown whereas pressing da/db without cooldown for repair kits. this is not the only skill/strategy to it, it is combined with the others to make tanki a more fun game to play

i also hope people stop saying that a specific drug makes it like two tanks in one, because two main factors are still remaining; so if you take DA, you are only op in da and not in other aspects like db and nitros. this probably would make the tank using drugs in the example only 30-40% more powerful (considering da and nitro, which is not so important in general fighting cases, along with other minor improvements such as knockback, plasma speed (for twins and rico), burning/freezing efficiency (for freeze/firebird) etc.)

so, in reducing it further, the point of drugs would be nulled out. 

tanki has already curbed heavy druggers with smart cooldown to equal it out a bit. going even further to reduce drug damage is going to really piss them off. so i feel things are best left the way they are.

[r_TIGER_BOY_20140 78]

not to also win the battle also to get goldbox

[Baby_Sam 614]

i also hope people stop saying that a specific drug makes it like two tanks in one, because two main factors are still remaining; so if you take DA, you are only op in da and not in other aspects like db and nitros. this probably would make the tank using drugs in the example only 30-40% more powerful (considering da and nitro, which is not so important in general fighting cases, along with other minor improvements such as knockback, plasma speed (for twins and rico), burning/freezing efficiency (for freeze/firebird) etc.)

so, in reducing it further, the point of drugs would be nulled out. .

I can't believe anybody would say that after the rank of recruit.

 

Let us say we have two exact tanks facing each other, one with DD and firing at each other. Let's say it takes 4 hits for a normal tank of these to destroy the other. So they exchange two hits, and one tank is destroyed. The other is at half health. It can destroy another similar tank. Doesn't that look like two lives to you?

[Destroyer8-k 9]

Just summing up my conclusion on this:

 

Well said: Baby_Sam - almost every entry we make in this string, we have to keep repeating: - none of us have any problem with drugs being in the TO game.  All I want is to be able choose the type of battle as a game OPTION (garage drugs v no garage drugs).  This way both sides are kept happy (and we want to keep TO happy (lots of revenue.)  ('Pro mode' wait - read on...)

And with battle field air drop 'drugs' - I would be the first to complain if anyone tried to remove them.  Air drop supplies - especially Health Packs are like mini control points and add greatly to tactical activities and general 'spice'.

and I have to constantly say - that yes Pro Mode IS the long term answer - but only when it becomes popular and we have enough 'standard shaped' Pro Mode battles 'available' at all levels.  I don't have time (impatient) to create fresh Pro Mode battles - this is why providing a simple no garage drug 'OPTION' to the standard mode is the quickest and most effective solution right now so that we all have a choice.  The druggers go to the garage drug battles and the non-druggers go to the non garage drug battles = simple.

Then all tankers vote with their feet (or mouse).  (Note to TO, the spending tankers will still buy MU, turrets etc. even if they stop using garage drugs).

 

And yes, TO have been very good in making a first attempt at making Pro Mode more popular.  I speculated that 500 crystals may be enough - but it's clear with the large number of options in Pro Mode this is a hard nut to crack and will take time.  We have provided lots of ideas to help TO provide 'standard' 'Pro Mode' battles so we can find one to join - and I will try harder to create a few.  If we could all agree on a server, this might help us find them more quickly.  Or provide a filter list to help find Pro Mode battles no matter what server they're on.

We all want this game to be a success and I want TO to make lots of money - they deserve it.  Why not sell 'cosmetic' items for our tanks - and I want one of those TO T shirts!  (Keep special versions for competition winners only).  I want to fly a 'jolly roger' on my tank (I would buy this) - e.g. when I'm starting a new account (e.g. Racer22_NS) (No garage Supplies) then the Newbie's understand they're fighting an experienced player (so they don't get disillusioned.  (Strangely I still don't win all my battles at corporal :0) - I suspect other experienced players are doing the same as me or I'm not as good as I think I am.)  (I'm an ex amateur r/c racing car driver who always wanted a gun on his car for those frustrating days when I can't get passed someone and everything seems to be going wrong :0)  TO is the answer.

We also have to find out why the number of players has gone down recently?  Maybe it's best to compare year on year? or maybe if it's because of the OP (none sporting) effects of over 'garage drug' use? Then Tanki better pay more attention to ways of getting them back.

 

And I have to repeat - even if I had unlimited garage drugs, I still prefer not to use them! because too much 'imbalance' is not good sport.  However, air dropped supplies have a 'collection' time delay and more skill is needed to make use of them or defend against them ('hide' for 40 seconds when a Thunder gets DP :0).

I will still play TO as it is now - it's just I like to help make it better for me (old git), my son (12) and anyone else who loves the game (this is what the Internet was invented for!)

Should be implemented.Though a update came very recently,Tanki could bring this in a few months.

[fufususumumu1 240]

I can't believe anybody would say that after the rank of recruit.

 

Let us say we have two exact tanks facing each other, one with DD and firing at each other. Let's say it takes 4 hits for a normal tank of these to destroy the other. So they exchange two hits, and one tank is destroyed. The other is at half health. It can destroy another similar tank. Doesn't that look like two lives to you?

well u have to start getting the facts right. if two tanks are combined, not only will they have double damage, but double armour along with double nitros. thats what (almost- other minor factors) completes the double tank. so if one tank has double armour, it has twice the life of another tank, but NOT twice the damage or speed. your base for your idea is that one drugged tank can destroy two non drugged ones in one go. thats NOT what makes it double the tank. 2 lives dont equal 2 tanks. a double tank includes double power /double armour too. thats what tanks used to be earlier without cooldowns, 4 TIMES AS POWERFUL. After the cooldown though, it has been reduced to twice. And teling tanki to reduce this even further is not going to help....

[Baby_Sam 614]

well u have to start getting the facts right. if two tanks are combined, not only will they have double damage, but double armour along with double nitros. thats what (almost- other minor factors) completes the double tank. so if one tank has double armour, it has twice the life of another tank, but NOT twice the damage or speed. your base for your idea is that one drugged tank can destroy two non drugged ones in one go. thats NOT what makes it double the tank. 2 lives dont equal 2 tanks. a double tank includes double power /double armour too. thats what tanks used to be earlier without cooldowns, 4 TIMES AS POWERFUL. After the cooldown though, it has been reduced to twice. And teling tanki to reduce this even further is not going to help....

This is a word game. It does not add any value to the discussion. The same goes with the word help highlighted above.

[fufususumumu1 240]

This is a word game. It does not add any value to the discussion. The same goes with the word help highlighted above.

if it is, why are comments like these being posted? i wanted to clarify the facts, and make it clear, so people dont use faulted examples in their discussion. 

 

I can't believe anybody would say that after the rank of recruit.

 

Let us say we have two exact tanks facing each other, one with DD and firing at each other. Let's say it takes 4 hits for a normal tank of these to destroy the other. So they exchange two hits, and one tank is destroyed. The other is at half health. It can destroy another similar tank. Doesn't that look like two lives to you?

this aint word game?

if by any chance you are playing the flame game, just want to let you know im out.

 

on topic: as said in previous example, you can see that the double power isnt as op at all (only when comined with dd), so are there any other reasons why tanki should reduce the drug to the power of the next mod?

also, what about tanks having reduced health so they can drug to become equally powered?

in all of these cases, not very much has been said about repair kits