Reduce power of garage supplies

[Chameleos 157]

You will see Unity in less than a year regardless of this discussion.

 

Your 90 pages of 'several months problem' is, in reality, a 6 years problem. I told you supplies are with this game almost from the beginning.

 

Most likely change could be the lowering of supplies power down to 150%. I tried it, it wasn't good. We had discussed it with other game designers and made decision not to change it.

 

When I was last time around here I asked why you do not calculate what will happen if you lower supplies power. You prefer to feed me with everything you had been discussing here, as if I had no idea what was it. Lowering supplies power even to x1.5 will make supplies useless for many turrets due to same number of shots it will need to land on enemy tank. If there is no difference, there will be no supplies.

 

Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible, while we aim to make them as widespread as possible. Aside from monetization, SCD'ed supplies makes battle tactics shift everytime someone using any supply. This adds more layers to the gameplay. While your goal will be to cut this additional layers out of the game, your suggestions will stay unanswered.

The real problem are not the supplies themselves, the problem are the supply kits, with huge discounts. Before those came out, i couldn't bother about the occasional supply, now i can see them very frequently at  these ranks. Before everyone had to save and if they wanted to buy supplies they either waited for a discount, or bought crystals (wasn't that a better gain anyway? 70% discount on supplies is huge). Just my opinion.

 

On a side note, this forum is so unresponsive. -.-

[thunderousrailgunner 1,936]

On a side note, this forum is so unresponsive. -.-

Only Devs in these matters

[racer22_online 206]

It might be that all us 'sportsmen' could form one large 'team' of players.

 

It might be that well organized players like us could defeat any random druggie opposition!

Or would at least it would be fun trying!

 

Dare I say it we could all use Red paint and if we win the humiliation on the druggers is plainer to see!

Please up vote this post if you want to give this idea go?  or simply 'friend' anyone who sounds like a sportsman?

 

(We might then spend our discussion time trying to create strategies to beat the druggers.)  (Might need a new thread for this.)

Even at my level I can suicide on the front of Gismos to slow them down a bit :0)

[creeperskelly 1,283]

A well organized team cannot win against a mediocre team all drugging (assuming the equipment is similar).

 

Last night I played 4-5 rounds of Serpukhov, 30 minutes each, with two teams that rarely drugged. All M2 or M3. Balanced skills and equipment. It was loads of fun. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost - but the score difference in flags at the end of each round was never more than 2 at the completion of the rounds. Nobody was complaining when they lost and nobody needed to complain about drugging.

 

Then a few people on the red team left and some druggers with mostly M3s showed up - the well organized team that I was on was slaughtered quickly. One of the players on the red team started acting rudely and crudely - "What's the matter, blue? Little p****** run out of precious supplies?"

 

The player's name was FarmerCharlie I believe. He is a nasty hateful person and defends drugging as if his life depends on it.

 

This kind of attitude and player just ruins the game completely.

 

It became pointless to stay and we all left. Why should we sit around or waste our supplies just because some a**clown shows up?

 

This is why druggers are stupid. Not only do they ruin a good game and act in a disruptive manner but by coming in the first few minutes and wiping everyone out they drive away. Wasting supplies and without another team to fight then capturing flags becomes pointless for them. Without opponents there are no crystals being added to the battle fund. Just stupid.

[creeperskelly 1,283]

What is also super painful and discouraging is this kind of result:

 

 

Red wins 10-0 and despite the amount of effort I put into the team the reward for 30 minutes was nil.

 

This is why it is pointless to remain in a round with druggers.

[BSG-62 574]

Make some games dropped supply only games.

Make all of them have a limit to drug use.

It'll stop them from going to far with their drugs and crap.

Leave mines with unlimited use (like it is right now XD).

[fufususumumu1 240]

Lolwut. They keep saying there are no developers to discuss an issue and when developer do come by to show why this is not going to work they ask him to keep silent and not escalate the discussion.

 

Be that way, if you wish. I am not going to discuss it anymore.

to others: he is the one of the only people who can actually put these proposals into practice, so statisitcs provided by mods lilke him end up to me much more reliable than our speculations.

@hazel, i hope that surveys can be done through test servers, polls etc. to help bring out the opinion of the majority of people on this case, and is not limited to the devs expectations only, as it can be end up to be quite biased. these surveys should be conducted over a long period of time 1-5 months or so, so that ihe opinions are not based on first impressions only. also can be limited to high ranks because this problem seems to be affecting them the most.

 

@BRUBOOK: you mean well, but like what was mentioned earlier, the focus on customer service may not necessarily lead to the successful gameing company and happiness of players. you have to take into account both sides of the situation. 

but i do agree that not many devs are taking trouble to check this and find solutions

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,669]

Logged in today and servers are getting decreased AGAIN.

TO losing players fast or whut? Hopefully Unity comes fast so they can make better updates or something.

And hopefully this Daily Missions accomplishes the "Make Supplies Widespread" goal.

 

Actually think it'll work if supplies actually do become widespread. :P

[creeperskelly 1,283]

One of the odd problems I am noticing with the heavily drugged tanks is that when you have 5 or 6 of your own team surrounding them trying to destroy them and prevent them from escaping it seems that the way damage is calculated must have a flaw.

 

It seems impossible that one tank can take so much damage and still just march away as if nothing had happened. I cannot understand how a single M3 (99% of the time a Viking hull) can escape when two Isidas, a Firebird, a Rail, and a Rico are all pounding it (all M2 or better and some with DD enabled). It almost seems that the damage from all of the tanks but one is being ignored. Maybe it is a flaw in damage calculation + lag but it's extremely frustrating to see this happen all the time.

 

Also I have noticed that the issue of how drugging affects game play seems to be less on a longer round with a larger map. I tend to see more balanced battles on a 30 minute round of Serpuhov than in a 15 minute round of Rio. Perhaps the longer wait for the end of the round discourages druggers since they want instant gratification and results.

 

I am also thinking this is because a drugged M3 Viking can just park itself in several spots in Rio and practically hammer every single spawn point without having to move. It is impossible to achieve this same coverage in Serpuhov.

[Brubook 1,161]

to others: he is the one of the only people who can actually put these proposals into practice, so statisitcs provided by mods lilke him end up to me much more reliable than our speculations.

@hazel, i hope that surveys can be done through test servers, polls etc. to help bring out the opinion of the majority of people on this case, and is not limited to the devs expectations only, as it can be end up to be quite biased. these surveys should be conducted over a long period of time 1-5 months or so, so that ihe opinions are not based on first impressions only. also can be limited to high ranks because this problem seems to be affecting them the most.

 

@BRUBOOK: you mean well, but like what was mentioned earlier, the focus on customer service may not necessarily lead to the successful gameing company and happiness of players. you have to take into account both sides of the situation. 

but i do agree that not many devs are taking trouble to check this and find solutions

Dear fufususumumu1

 

I was thinking about what you said, but I don't really see examples of poor customer care being an advantage for a company. The only situation like this (in my country) is the mobile telephone companies. But let's remember that they are in 3, every person is using mobile phones and everyone is forced to deal with them. They also have almost 2 millions swaps a year (persons that change company provider) but swaps are in both ways, so in the end every company more or less has the same clients!

The advantage is the reduced cost of customer care (which in this case could be huge).

 

Tanki is not that case. Tanki is a different context company and I believe (as for any normal company dealing with public) that customer care is necessary and it is part of a company success.

Also company success and happiness of players is the same thing in this case!

[RustyNail 1,549]

 

...

The only situation like this (in my country) is the mobile telephone companies. But let's remember that they are in 3, every person is using mobile phones and everyone is forced to deal with them. They also have almost 2 millions swaps a year (persons that change company provider) but swaps are in both ways, so in the end every company more or less has the same clients!

The advantage is the reduced cost of customer care (which in this case could be huge).

 

...

 

 

LOL That's the same in my country too, starting this tactic around 2004 or 2005. They drastically reduced the cost of customer care Department knowing that people can't do anything really. So much for auto-regulation of free market LOL

 

But as you said, TO like games are a completely different story. Although, due to very small average customer age and lack of serious complains, they managed to avoid serious problems, so far. <_<

[racer22_online 206]

I do agree with you creeperskelly that dealing with the druggers is no easy matter and is the reason I believe this thread is so massive.

Too many users have been despairing at the lack of help from Tanki Management.

 

The picture you paint is what we all see on the battlefield time and time again.

We have all seen that 'minimal' drug use leads to many good battles - until the druggers turn up.

 

Hence, as you say, quitting drug infested battles is often the only way to go.  Then everyone loses.

Dealing with 1 drugger can be done with a good team - but 3 to 4 druggers gets rapidly out of hand.

 

 

As we know that becoming druggers ourselves is not the answer because the battles 'tip' too easily (no fun in that) - sadly Tanki Management do not seem to believe me on this.

In my book, drugging with keys 1 to 4 is a cowardly activity (thoroughly dishonourable), Tanki management do not seem to want to cater for this 'gentlemanly' attitude.

 

 

However, because Tank Management have shown no interest in helping our point of view,  I have been looking for new ways to defeat the druggers.

In the meantime, I don't want us to give up asking Tanki to remove the 'abuse' we get from the druggers (and pointing out this is probably the number one reason why so many have given up playing).

 

If Tanki Management are reading this - we need a way for the Sportsmen and the Druggers to avoid each other (as we would do in Pro Mode if Tanki would only co-operate by making Pro Mode popular).

 

I'm now convinced that Tanki Management are deliberately running down the old game, then we will be forced to move to the new (Unity) game ON NEW TERMS.

We may not like the new terms - but the old game will be so bad we have no choice - and Tanki Management will say we moved 'voluntarily'!

I think Tanki have made so much money from the old game that they see no reason to change their attitude and would prefer to 'keep' the tankers who have a 'drugging mentality' and get rid of all the 'whingers and whiners' like us.

 

I.e. I would say 20% of Tankers will accept the 'drugging mentality'.

and the other 80% may have to leave.

It is those drugging 20% that are the majority of 'buyers' - hence, by losing the 'sportsman' 80% - Tanki appear to have lost nothing!

 

It is their game and they have every right to do as they wish.

 

All this is very sad to me - because Tanki could be such a good sport.

On an optimistic note - the numbers of players should go up while on Unity - then the Pro Pass can become more widespread in usage and we can then choose the kind of game we want :0)

 

I'm also optimistic that the eSports channel will show Tanki what makes for the best battles (good sport) - this should mean at some point in the future all us sportsmen will get what we want because someone will realise that the 80% they had 'lost' are actually good for the game and we WILL spend money (but not on performance aids.)

E.g. the current 'experiment' with HardStyle battles - shows just how boring these are to watch (=limited sport) because as we know 'unlimited drugs' will cause 'knife edge' battles - i.e. they flop to an easy win and easy defence for one side only - with only a few nil - nil draws - which strangely are the most exciting!!

 

What I like about Tanki are the human opponents and the opportunity to use cunning, downright subterfuge and trickery to do the unexpected.

Potentially the power of 'team synergy' should mean 2 tanks can outperform 3.

Before my son (12) quit Tanki to play 'Clash of Clans' - the 2 of us could co-operate sufficiently to gain a significant advantage, so I know first hand this can be done.

 

I believe there is much more that can be done with team tactics in Tanki and I look forward to joining a clan one day.

I still feel it a worthy experiment to build a skilled non-drugging clan that can beat 2 or 3 druggers in a standard 10 v10 CTF battle.

 

More bad news!

However, as predicted - we now have more drugging problems caused by daily missions!!!

This morning I gained 21 repair kits, about 30 DD, about 30 Nitros and about 2000 crystals from daily missions.

This could mean finding as much as 80% drugging in battles going forward!

I.e. 8 out of 10 tanks will be on drugs - this will not be beatable by a non-drugging side! :0(

 

We may have no choice but to drug to survive or quit the game! or scratch around in DM?

 

Alternatively our mission (should we be willing to accept) it is to group together the best non drugging skills we have to beat them.

I'm asking if anyone wants to join me?

We may be forced to use some garage drugs in certain situations - but use them with a certain amount of etiquette - i.e. not use them when we're winning.

(Using health packs while 'holding' the flag and at gold box time is fine - 3 mines per 15 mins is also okay).

 

 

I have friended creeperskelly - let's see what we can do (I look forward to seeing you in battle).

[creeperskelly 1,283]

I saw an amazing amount of drugging tonight - it was downright awful. I don't think I played more than 2 or 3 complete rounds overall.

[F.A.8.D 24]

bad :(

[Brubook 1,161]

LOL That's the same in my country too, starting this tactic around 2004 or 2005. They drastically reduced the cost of customer care Department knowing that people can't do anything really. So much for auto-regulation of free market LOL

 

But as you said, TO like games are a completely different story. Although, due to very small average customer age and lack of serious complains, they managed to avoid serious problems, so far. <_<

So far .... "so far" is correct, you are right!

 

Maybe (and this is just a hypotesis) problem started when they grew up more rapidly (6-12 months ago). They couldn't handle the situation and players unsatisfaction and frustration took place. Results: they halved players base (as stats say).

 

Again, as I said many times, this should be kind of light some alarm bell up into Tanki devs minds!!!

 

Also (I have no stats about it but my personal one) I have the feeling that a lot of people spend quite some time on forum ... more time on forum, less time on the game. Why? Less playing pleasure and more frustration (expressed into forum messages).

[Brubook 1,161]

...

Dear racer

 

On your correct post, you and we all don't have to forget one simple thing: druggers need non-druggers!

 

Otherwise, playing equally, they wouldn't get that childish godmode_ON feeling they have against non druggers!!!

 

So it is not really correct that if Tanki looses the 80% of sportsmen players, they will loose nothing!

[deadmanrising 719]

If tanki are not going to do anything about drugs and ignore all 92 pages then please close this topic, there was no initiative for keeping it open

[creeperskelly 1,283]

They probably keep it open because it's better to have one large thread about this than dozens popping up every day.

 

Also as long as people are behaving there's no reason to lock it.

 

Plus there are some good suggestions here - whether or not those suggestions are looked at, considered, or somehow implemented is a different story.

[BSG-62 574]

Kill off the druggers!!!!

KILL KILL KILL KILL!

I want them gone!

Set a drug use limit!!!!!! Stop the druggers!!!

KILL THEM OFF!!!!!!!

[creeperskelly 1,283]

Interesting thing about drugging: some people are so used to doing it that when they spawn they automatically enable something.

 

Just now while playing Rio we were up 10-0, 10 people on my team, 4-5 on the blue. I watched in amazement and horror seeing red players spawning and hitting DD or DA immediately - despite the fact that we were winning substantially, had more players, and it would have been physically impossible with the time left for blue to catch up and win. There weren't any blue players nearby.

 

I shook my head in disbelief.

[PrinceMalagant 35]

"A shark feeding frenzy occurs when a number of sharks fight for the same prey" 

from Wiki: Feeding Frenzy  :D 

[creeperskelly 1,283]

I figured out Hazel-Rah's evil plan now. To counteract the complains about drugging "Daily Missions" were added to increase the daily supply of "free" drugs. By completing the missions on small or easy maps you get enough supplies/crystals in return to counteract some of the effect of people who buy the kits and use them on the regular rounds. ;)

[Chameleos 157]

I figured out Hazel-Rah's evil plan now. To counteract the complains about drugging "Daily Missions" were added to increase the daily supply of "free" drugs. By completing the missions on small or easy maps you get enough supplies/crystals in return to counteract some of the effect of people who buy the kits and use them on the regular rounds. ;)

Actually, to do some of them, either you 1vs1 with a friend, or drug.

 

Interesting thing about drugging: some people are so used to doing it that when they spawn they automatically enable something.

 

Just now while playing Rio we were up 10-0, 10 people on my team, 4-5 on the blue. I watched in amazement and horror seeing red players spawning and hitting DD or DA immediately - despite the fact that we were winning substantially, had more players, and it would have been physically impossible with the time left for blue to catch up and win. There weren't any blue players nearby.

 

I shook my head in disbelief.

Also this thing, I've been making Noise CTF for a lot of time, but when I did yesterday, the first generalissimo who joined, spawned and instantly hit 2...  :rolleyes:

[Myrddins 4]

Since the daily missions the prolificaion of druggers especially the damage druggers is getting stupid. the overpower the opposition on maps then keep drugging while spawn camping which is completely ruining the game play for those people on the receiving end.

 

Give out resource boxes but cut the damage one from the list.

[racer22_online 206]

Just clarifying that I believe Tanki are in error in thinking they can lose 80% of the players without any bad effect on their revenues.

 

Brubook is right the druggers do need the non-druggers - most druggers do not appear to like fighting druggers.

 

However:

1.         Tanki may already have plenty of money - in which case they don't care much if they lose the free to play tankers.

2.         Tanki maybe deliberately 'winding down' the old game before starting Unity - this could be part of their plan to show how the old game has become unpopular.

3.         Of the 20% that remain - they prefer to keep the 'druggers' because 50% of these are the 'buyers' - and they value these most long term.

 

What none of know for sure is how many druggers will leave the game when they find the 80% 'cannon fodder' have left.

 

Ideally Tanki would like us all to become druggers - they clearly see this 'addiction' as a major part of their strategy.

Hence, daily missions encourages this behaviour - although I did manage to win 3 of my matches today without drugs on Sandbox - one of them I was the only one left on the losing side :0)

I note that 1 to 1 matches are a guaranteed daily mission battle 'win' :0)

 

Tanki don't appear to appreciate that 'unlimited drugging' in the game does not work - it actually causes bigger imbalances - the strong get stronger and the weak players never learn to use drugs optimally - i.e. they get relatively weaker.

 

Even in the Hardstyle games (where all players should be 'good' with equal opportunities) we see the 'over power' of the garage drugs sharply tipping the balance allowing one side to 'dominate' the other.  It's a bit like a sudden death competition with the first to score being the winner.  Remember how the Christmas map was - the first to get a Shaft to the top of the hill was the winner! (after that the losing side had to sit it out to the end of the game - tankers soon gave up with that.

 

It may be that the Pro Pass will be the only way to avoid the abuse by druggers - but the smaller number of sportsman players means Pro Mode battles will be harder to find.