category Ideas for Hulls and Overdrives!

[Alklines 1,751]

It really is OP. A Paladin user should have some type of vulnerability when the OD is on, such as AP, EMP and Stun. Of course then you could equip one of those hull immunities and be vulnerable to the other two that you don't have equipped. But good thing is, devs usually nerf something OP after some time, be it weeks or several months, after they milk it from buyers first.

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 12/18/2021 at 4:53 AM, Iron_Man said:

I partly agree with that.

I've seen people in group with one just one paladin, and being invincible.

The ability to its to extend to others, is the issue in my opinion.

Use Isida Vampire nanobots and you become invincible.

This is my main issue with the overdrive. Invincibility renders all your status effect inflicting augments useless. 

Yeah... Hunter OD is pretty much useless vs Paladin. 

I mean... trying to make use of the 5m extra range with the 1.1 second delay makes it almost impossible.

[VIC2000 92]

How about giving a protection module against it, that would help.

Typical devs, outright GREED instead of balance, but never mind because they give you a free container every day. 

@Iron_Man @nikunj04 And why don't you address the main problem about the protection that the devs deliberately do not give players because of their GREED.

TO is dead, just like your responses to most things the devs do. Every time they post something new, you lot always give it the thumbs up.  

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, VIC2000 said:

How about giving a protection module against it, that would help.

Typical devs, outright GREED instead of balance, but never mind because they give you a free container every day. 

@Iron_Man @nikunj04 And why don't you address the main problem about the protection that the devs deliberately do not give players because of their GREED.

TO is dead, just like your responses to most things the devs do. Every time they post something new, you lot always give it the thumbs up.  

Well Jammer or AP Immunity does do something vs Paladin, if there are many Paladins I tend to wear AP immunity. If you are asking for a full immunity (Jammer + AP) that is a double hull immunity augment, which surely you would not want. That is the next potential big pay-to-win change, which has already been talked about. Of course those will only be available for tankoins/in Ultras, and would give buyers a large advantage once again. I think there are fairer ways to "fix" Paladin than this - because then only heavy buyers will have the solution and everyone else will be left to continue getting owned. I think when you think about it, this would not be the solution you really want.

And on topic, yes Paladin is OP, and I am sure a nerf will be coming. Probably to the overdrive duration (which is too long), and/or in making it easier to counter, I would guess. Although one thing I do think that is very positive about it, is that it reduces the impact of status effects (since it gives immunity to all, albeit temporarily), which was badly needed, as status effects have become too powerful. Also, for players who like support (such as myself) it is great to have another support hull, have found some great uses for it in teams. But part of the problem is that it is not just great (OP) for support, it is also mega strong even when used by a single player acting alone.

Edited December 21, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[readyfireaim 369]

2 hours ago, JustBlackWolf said:

It's not about the duration of the overdrive, the overpowerness of Paladin comes from the fact that it can apply TWO effects to a tank, and you can't protect yourself from both.

The fact that it heals the tank wouldn't be a problem if Jammer wasn't applied.

I'd agree with this.

The problem isn't that it goes on for so long. The problem is that it's impossible to fight back. Paladin is OP, yes, but it's supposed to be a supporting hull. It's supposed to heal teammates and protect them. They could remove the critical hit defense, but I don't really think it's a good idea to nerf any other part of the bonuses it gives to allies, except slower healing, maybe.

What is really problematic is you just can't win. You shoot, it's negated by the healing. You try pressing Shift and get nothing. Cause you can't use the Overdrive cause Jammer. And it's impossible to protect against any turret cause of AP. If it were up to me (who, by the way, loves abusing Paladin's OD right now), I'd remove every negative effect it has on opponents. Basically, it only does good stuff, not bad stuff.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

8 minutes ago, readyfireaim said:

I'd agree with this.

The problem isn't that it goes on for so long. The problem is that it's impossible to fight back. Paladin is OP, yes, but it's supposed to be a supporting hull. It's supposed to heal teammates and protect them. They could remove the critical hit defense, but I don't really think it's a good idea to nerf any other part of the bonuses it gives to allies, except slower healing, maybe.

What is really problematic is you just can't win. You shoot, it's negated by the healing. You try pressing Shift and get nothing. Cause you can't use the Overdrive cause Jammer. And it's impossible to protect against any turret cause of AP. If it were up to me (who, by the way, loves abusing Paladin's OD right now), I'd remove every negative effect it has on opponents. Basically, it only does good stuff, not bad stuff.

That might be a good solution. Maybe keep the Jammer effect perhaps? I don't know :P I would like to see it nerfed, but not made useless for sure, as the overdrive is an interesting idea, and I am glad to see another support hull.

I know given that this is Tanki, we will probably see a massive over-nerf that will make it useless - that always happens to any non-Ultra container exclusive item that is OP. I don't want that, but given the past history (most recently with Hopper), we can probably expect that lol.

Edited December 21, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Well Jammer or AP Immunity does do something vs Paladin

We can't buy these in the garage.  Between 2 accounts with about 12 hulls I have 1 AP immunity.  ONE.

And ZERO jammer immunities.

So they made this hull, which is already fast, immune to Hunters stun.  They are the new Hopper.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

4 hours ago, VIC2000 said:

How about giving a protection module against it, that would help.

Typical devs, outright GREED instead of balance, but never mind because they give you a free container every day. 

@Iron_Man @nikunj04 And why don't you address the main problem about the protection that the devs deliberately do not give players because of their GREED.

TO is dead, just like your responses to most things the devs do. Every time they post something new, you lot always give it the thumbs up.  

Your post is more of a complaint rather than a suggestion or an idea. We understand your frustration, but it would be more suitable to redirect them to the Complaint Book section of the forum. Keep this topic for only suggestions.

[readyfireaim 369]

This might sound weird, but hear me out. Might a potential fix (barring the fact that the OD would still require nerfs) be to make it so you get battle points when healing teammates?

Yes. I am aware that that's counterintuitive. Why give people more of an incentive to use the OD? But think of it this way. Too many people, myself included, like waiting until there are enemies near to activate the Overdrive. Free kills. Yay. But that's not what Paladin is supposed to be used for. It's supposed to have a team-based Overdrive, just like Dictator. And so, when you use it the way it's supposed to be used, you'll get rewards (namely battle points) for it. Yay!

I realize that the OD would still require other nerfs, but I think this might help.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

39 minutes ago, readyfireaim said:

This might sound weird, but hear me out. Might a potential fix (barring the fact that the OD would still require nerfs) be to make it so you get battle points when healing teammates?

Yes. I am aware that that's counterintuitive. Why give people more of an incentive to use the OD? But think of it this way. Too many people, myself included, like waiting until there are enemies near to activate the Overdrive. Free kills. Yay. But that's not what Paladin is supposed to be used for. It's supposed to have a team-based Overdrive, just like Dictator. And so, when you use it the way it's supposed to be used, you'll get rewards (namely battle points) for it. Yay!

I realize that the OD would still require other nerfs, but I think this might help.

Actually there are many incentives of Paladin as a "supporting hull" . It can self-heal and support nearby allies more effectively than any Isida would do, because it can heal a large amount of people simultaneously. It also grants the allies almost 90% crit immunity and immunity to other status effects. This Idea would have been possible if Paladin didn't already have all these stats,  then this idea would have been far more useful.

But wait, I am not saying to reject the idea, if in the near future Paladin does get a nerf in its OD, then this concept would be good. But for now, it is like providing more advantage to a person which is already somewhat invincible. Hope you get my point ^^

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

6 hours ago, readyfireaim said:

This might sound weird, but hear me out. Might a potential fix (barring the fact that the OD would still require nerfs) be to make it so you get battle points when healing teammates?

Yes. I am aware that that's counterintuitive. Why give people more of an incentive to use the OD? But think of it this way. Too many people, myself included, like waiting until there are enemies near to activate the Overdrive. Free kills. Yay. But that's not what Paladin is supposed to be used for. It's supposed to have a team-based Overdrive, just like Dictator. And so, when you use it the way it's supposed to be used, you'll get rewards (namely battle points) for it. Yay!

I realize that the OD would still require other nerfs, but I think this might help.

This would be dangerous. And no, I don't agree with any idea to give Ares or Paladin points for healing allies. 

 

But if this were to make it into the game, the Overdrive cooldown will have to be increased from 20 seconds to something like 25 seconds, which just puts us deeper into the problem of the bad design of this Overdrive. 

[Incorp 2,084]

14 hours ago, VIC2000 said:

TO is dead, just like your responses to most things the devs do. Every time they post something new, you lot always give it the thumbs up.  

Some people see the bright side; others see the dark side.

13 hours ago, readyfireaim said:

What is really problematic is you just can't win. You shoot, it's negated by the healing. You try pressing Shift and get nothing. Cause you can't use the Overdrive cause Jammer. And it's impossible to protect against any turret cause of AP. If it were up to me (who, by the way, loves abusing Paladin's OD right now), I'd remove every negative effect it has on opponents. Basically, it only does good stuff, not bad stuff.

Actually i had killed a paladin with active overdrive numerous times.  It is actually pretty easy, teamwork is the key. I myself have been killed soon after I started the OD as paladin. Feels good to do that.

[Iron_Man 2,376]

59 minutes ago, Incorp said:

Actually i had killed a paladin with active overdrive numerous times.  It is actually pretty easy, teamwork is the key. I myself have been killed soon after I started the OD as paladin. Feels good to do that.

I've done that myself, quite a lot of times.

But on a general scale, that's not really easy because critical damage is something many of the turrets depend upon, right now(many but definitely not all). That is not the case with other similar overdrives.

All you need is AP effect to neutralize Titan's dome. It is rather easy to disable/liquidate other overdrives, compared to that of Paladin.

[Incorp 2,084]

A reasonable nerf is to remove the ability of the OD to deal AP and Jammer to enemies, or to polarized a teammate, behind a wall.  

 

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

I dont think it needs a lot of nerfs all it needs is remove Jammer or AP bcs 2 pretty powerfull effects are way too much even if you have AP/jammer immunity then all you need is to remove 90% prot from crits bcs why in the hell it has that? i am paladin main cuz i am a support player but now there is almost no reason to use it with my teammates unless im losing in siege so give it like 5points per player supported but it only activates once per OD so you cant abuse it. i know it may seem like nothing but no crit prot alone would make paladin x10 easier to kill (i am very experienced player so i know what im saying lol)

[NikmanGT 4,362]

Exactly yeah, nerfing both these 2 parameters of status effects can really balance Paladin and make it actually "counterable".

[readyfireaim 369]

12 minutes ago, DokanPerfect said:

I dont think it needs a lot of nerfs all it needs is remove Jammer or AP bcs 2 pretty powerfull effects are way too much even if you have AP/jammer immunity then all you need is to remove 90% prot from crits bcs why in the hell it has that? i am paladin main cuz i am a support player but now there is almost no reason to use it with my teammates unless im losing in siege so give it like 5points per player supported but it only activates once per OD so you cant abuse it. i know it may seem like nothing but no crit prot alone would make paladin x10 easier to kill (i am very experienced player so i know what im saying lol)

Of course. This is a great idea. Remove the negative status effects, give it some battle points, and we're good to go.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

1 hour ago, Incorp said:

 behind a wall.  

This here is the first thing that needs to happen before anything else. It's insanely stupid that this thing tags people through walls.

[Abellia 504]

34 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

This here is the first thing that needs to happen before anything else. It's insanely stupid that this thing tags people through walls.

Now imagine if Wasp bombs killed people through walls.

[VIC2000 92]

19 hours ago, nikunj04 said:

Actually there are many incentives of Paladin as a "supporting hull"

I have never seen it supporting, only dominating battles because there is no counter to it. Solution, I just leave the battle and let the hacks get on with it.  

And by the way my posts are the truth why the devs do away with balance, pure greed. 

 

11 hours ago, nikunj04 said:

Exactly yeah, nerfing both these 2 parameters of status effects can really balance Paladin and make it actually "counterable".

How about a protection module at the same time as IT comes out, that's a good idea.

Edited December 21, 2021 by VIC2000

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

2 hours ago, VIC2000 said:

How about a protection module at the same time as IT comes out, that's a good idea.

But we can't have a protection module against Paladin - Paladin doesn't actually deal damage, it inflicts status effects (AP and Jammer). And in fact, we already have protections against status those status effects (AP and Jammer immunity), although we can't of course equip both at the same time - and they are relatively hard (but not impossible) to obtain for free players and light buyers. Paladin is not unique in applying 2 status effects with its overdrive - so do Hunter and Crusader for instance - but it of course applies them constantly.

To have a "protection module" against Paladin, is as I said - a double immunity hull augment. That would be the closest thing to a "protection module" against Paladin. And we all know, the developers are not going to give something like that out easily - it will surely be a pay-to-win item which will be hard for most players to obtain without a lot of real cash spending. So that is NOT a good solution, what we simply need is a nerf to Paladin, and that can be easily achieved.

I suggest starting by 1) having Paladin only inflict Jammer (and not AP) and 2) reduce critical damage protection from 90% to 50%. If it still needs more, then maybe a 5 second overdrive duration reduction, but I suspect that would be enough on its own. This would make it much more of a support tank with less offensive power (as it was supposed to be) and also it would be more killable during overdrive - but I think it would still be useful. As with most things in Tanki, it is very easy to over-nerf things from OP to useless. We want to achieve a suitable nerf, that would still allow Paladin to be viable but not to dominate every capture battle like it does now (and in fact, be OP in almost every mode other than TJR).
 

3 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

This here is the first thing that needs to happen before anything else. It's insanely stupid that this thing tags people through walls.

I definitely think Paladin should not apply the offensive effects (AP and Jammer currently) through walls, as I think most other offensive effects (such as Wasp Bomb, or Hunter overdrive) are not applied through walls - and applying Jammer through walls is particularly problematic. The only exception might be the freezing effect of Dictator overdrive (not sure, but a fairly minor effect anyhow). However, Dictator overdrive/Mechanic/Supplier all apply through walls - there is a precedent for friendly bonuses to be applicable through walls. I don't think that the main issue with Paladin, so I think if the offensive effects only applied to targets directly in line-of-sight, and friendly bonuses continuing to be applied without line-of-sight would be OK, in my opinion. But we also need other nerfs as well as that, of course.


EDIT: Changed my suggestion as original nerf idea was too little.

Edited December 21, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[VIC2000 92]

@DestrotankAI9 All sensible solutions. 

TO is 100% p2w so this vicious cycle of OP turrets, overdrives, AP, EMP nonsense is always going to continue as long as the devs have enough noob buyers willing to spend obscene amounts of cash on the latest gimmick.

4 hours ago, T.Rex.online said:

This is just a 100% winner combination.

Fact.

 

4 hours ago, T.Rex.online said:

I see no point to stay in such game

Agree.

 

4 hours ago, T.Rex.online said:

This is not a defensive hull at all.

Agree.

The devs knew that when they brought it out, knowing it would destroy balance even further, just like the flying monkey does along with hornets overdrive.

TO is trash and is no longer a fun go to game, it is the exact opposite, which is why so many players complain and leave battles before the end on a regular basis. 

P2W with no BALANCE sums TO up perfectly. 

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

7 hours ago, VIC2000 said:

@DestrotankAI9 All sensible solutions. 

Thanks :) Well I hope they will make changes like what I have suggested, rather than a gigantic over-nerf, as they have a tendancy to do. One thing that I really hate about Tanki is how balance changes are so excessive, often taking things from OP to useless or useless to OP, and I know a lot of other players hate this too. This means there is very little stability in the game's meta, and it is particularly painful when items take so much time/real money to buy or upgrade.

What needs to change is that balance changes need to aim for actual balance, and not to create a new meta intentionally. You can't say "OK this item has been OP for X amount of time, so it deserves to be pathetically weak for X amount of time." Which seems to be the kind of thing the Tanki devs are saying, through their patch notes (although they may have other motives for it). Instead, we should see changes that leave items viable, but not OP.

Hopper is the most recent example - it was the very most OP hull in most modes, and now it the overall WORST hull. Many other examples in the past.

Let's NOT see the same with Paladin, especially as it is one of the rare support items in Tanki, and it helps combat status effects - Paladin in general was a good idea, but in it's current form it is OP. We need to see a moderate nerf, like what I have suggested, and NOT another patch that takes something else from OP to useless.

Edited December 22, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[alkyng 3,080]

37 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Hopper is the most recent example - it was the very most OP hull in most modes, and now it the overall WORST hull. Many other examples in the past.

Wrong, it's not the worst hull. In example it can hover left and right, while hornet can't. It can be controllable with mouse which gives you a very very precise aim, hornet can't. Not sure if it still can cross over tanks or not.

37 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Let's NOT see the same with Paladin, especially as it is one of the rare support items in Tanki, and it helps combat status effects - Paladin in general was a good idea, but in it's current form it is OP. We need to see a moderate nerf, like what I have suggested, and NOT another patch that takes something else from OP to useless.

If the players of the OP hull like hopper haven't provide an enough reasonable reasons while it was OP or haven't every give it any cares, definitely I wont give a care if it get nerfed to the ground. I remember before a weeks, one for the first time posted in the forum complaining about the Stun railgun nerf, he said he agree it was OP but they nerfed it alot.   The most logical thing to answer him, why he haven't complained or shared his opinion when it was OP? 

SO I HOPE THEM TO NERF PALADIN INTO THE GROUND

Edited December 22, 2021 by asem.harbi

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

Wrong, it's not the worst hull. In example it can hover left and right, while hornet can't. It can be controllable with mouse which gives you a very very precise aim, hornet can't. Not sure if it still can cross over tanks or not.

If the players of the OP hull like hopper haven't provide an enough reasonable reasons while it was OP or haven't every give it any cares, definitely I wont give a care if it get nerfed to the ground. I remember before a weeks, one for the first time posted in the forum complaining about the Stun railgun nerf, he said he agree it was OP but they nerfed it alot.   The most logical thing to answer him, why he haven't complained or shared his opinion when it was OP? 

SO I HOPE THEM TO NERF PALADIN INTO THE GROUND

OK, well Hopper is most definitely currently the worst hull, as it is flipped absurdly easily. You can still win games with it, but you will have a harder time doing so than with any other hull - and you will be losing more points to self-destruction than any other hull, which is not fun gameplay at all.

As for the second part of your post, I heavily disagree. Perhaps using Hopper was a bad example (as many players have built up a strong hatred of the hull), so then let's use Shaft (before it was recently buffed to be viable again). Shaft was taken from OP to pretty much useless for quite a while, until the recent buff. Just because something has been OP does NOT mean it "deserves" to be unpowered for a while - this is NOT proper balancing.

The way that you are talking about "balancing" here is the way the developers are doing it currently (albeit that you want this for different reasons - because you want "revenge" against Paladin (and formely Hopper) for being OP). This is not a good way to balance games, and it is not a good way to think - if we want to achieve true "balance" (that is, with as many items as possible viable, and everything as close in power as possible) then we don't want to make things either underpowered or overpowered. The developers tendancy to make things very OP for a while, and then nerf them to uselessness (or the opposite) is very frustrating in a game where you have to spend a lot of time and money to upgrade items - you never know what to buy or upgrade, it is so unstable.

So I urge you to re-think your opinions of what good balancing looks like, because with an attitude like that you are encouraging the developers' worst tendancies - to implement dramatic over-nerfs and over-buffs, which many of us hate.

Edited December 22, 2021 by DestrotankAI9