update Patch Update #675 - Released 14th January 2022

JoyRide · January 17, 2022

14 hours ago, Venerable said:

I don't think anything I say as a response to this will matter — but I'll say it anyway. Even though it's highly unlikely that a player has more than 15 Mk1s (I chose 15 arbitrarily; I'm basically referring to a high number of Mk1s) in the container-reward pool, they still get a significant number or extra containers. I'm not much of an expert in probability or programming, but having a container, a chance to get a good item, for every Mk1 is a "non-negative profit" situation. So the profit here can be zero, but you'll never be in a loss.

Based on my understanding of probability, one can never reach an accurate conclusion from any given data, though one can definitely get closer to the truth as the number of data points increases. The number of trials you considered to reach the conclusions that container-rewards aren't "purely random" will never be enough to say anything with absolute certainty. I can still argue that it's just probability at work and you're seeing patterns which are coincidental. Yes, those patterns are annoying & uncanny, and I don't blame you for being suspicious, but I think it boils down to what you choose to believe. 99.99% is still 99.99% — however trivial it may seem, that 0.01% still has the potential to turn things upside down.

Now, if you claim to be an expert in programming and probability, then I'm in no position to argue with you. But I still firmly believe that those 23 containers are more than enough to compensate for those repeated hulls & turrets. Conspiracy theories exist everywhere — it really becomes a matter of trust, and I choose to trust the Developers (for multiple reasons, though you'd like to think that I'm saying this simply because I'm a Helper... I won't argue on that because it's futile, but rest assured that my being a Helper plays a very tiny role in what I believe).

Cheers!

I have seen more than enough containers open to draw a reliable conclusion that there was intentional differentiation between items in the same rarity. The algorithm most definitely is not purely random, there are at least some weights involved. The things I have noticed are reliably reoccurring. If it was purely random it would not be the case.

Bydo · January 17, 2022

1 hour ago, Venerable said:

All I'm saying is that every wasted container got compensated by another container. Even though it is extremely unlikely that someone gets 23 Mk1s from their hard-earned containers, Tanki still gave 23 containers as a compensation (even if you lost less than 23 containers).

Adding Mk1s to containers was intentional, it's just that they made a mistake during implementation.

It is natural to feel bad if you get a lower rarity reward in lieu of the wasted Mk1 container, but that shouldn't matter - you still got compensated with another container, which could also give you an even better reward.

sir if you look at players who received / example 7 out of 23 containers as Mk1 . it was wrong to do in the first place they could have given us MK1 in a special container just like god box's or premium package with all of them in one package. but they chose to give them in containers which took up 7 or more containers instead of items .

there was other was they could have given us MK1's but they choose not too. and like I said before recieving 1k in crystals instead of 250 supply's or 10 days of premium pass , just don't even out.

Venerable · January 17, 2022

1 hour ago, Bydo said:

...

Ma'am, I respect your opinion, but please hear me out...

Not all players faced this problem of getting repeated Mk1s. In fact, I was one of the rare few players who did not have a single Mk1 in their containers' reward-pool. This is because I bought the Mk1 version of every turret and hull first and then upgraded them. "Venerable" is a relatively new account.

I don't think it was possible to directly give Mk1s to players who faced this problem due to logistical difficulties. Giving 23 extra, free containers is actually a very smart and simple way to remove every single Mk1 equipment from the pool of rewards sooner or later.

Getting 23 containers is a "non-negative profit" situation. You will have zero profit if and only if you never had the Mk1 versions of 23 turrets & hulls in your Garage at least once (this does not include Smoky, Viking/Crusader, and Hunter/Ares, as these are available for free). Do keep in mind that if you bought M0 versions, then the system doesn't consider them as Mk1 even if you ended up with Mk1s after the M to Mk conversion. In all other cases, you will get extra supplies/crystals or even paints & augments. There's nothing to complain about, because most players have got extra items and also got rid of a few Mk1s! For a small number of players, the containers have given only extra items (like in my case), or only Mk1s, sooner or later (very rare, but still possible).

Also, the changes made to containers are all intentional. It does not matter whether the rewards got nerfed or not — it was intentional, and the Token of Apology simply gave containers as compensation for the mistake the Developers made specifically regarding Mk1 equipment in containers.

1 hour ago, Bydo said:

they could have given us MK1 in a special container just like god box's or premium package with all of them in one package

Yes, they could have done that, but giving 23 extra containers is much simpler and more effective — it achieves the same goal with hardly any hassle (albeit with plenty of confusion among players).

Edited January 17, 2022 by Venerable

Bydo · January 17, 2022

sir if you go back a few months when the new system was implemented , Hazel( sorry not use to his new name yet) stated that this new system they could do so many things with it, in other words they could have given us a promo code or a link for all to use. instead they chose to use containers which took items away from players. I had all MK1 on my tanks and now I have to reload them from containers. which don't make sense .

for you not getting MK1 I feel for you and you have to understand why I'm not for how they gave items to players . you and many others now have to wait for a MK1 to come your way. say your expecting a augment but get a MK1 from a container on ranking .would that not get you a little mad , seeing you had spent all that time and crystals working to upgrade it just to have it removed and now have to wait for a container to replace tanki's mistake>?

Dopamine · January 17, 2022

4 hours ago, Venerable said:

All I'm saying is that every wasted container got compensated by another container. Even though it is extremely unlikely that someone gets 23 Mk1s from their hard-earned containers, Tanki still gave 23 containers as a compensation (even if you lost less than 23 containers).

Adding Mk1s to containers was intentional, it's just that they made a mistake during implementation.

It is natural to feel bad if you get a lower rarity reward in lieu of the wasted Mk1 container, but that shouldn't matter - you still got compensated with another container, which could also give you an even better reward.

1 hour ago, Venerable said:

Getting 23 containers is a "non-negative profit" situation.

I´ll actually have to disagree with you aswell.

(I know there´s almost zer0 chance we´ll achieve any extra compensation but we should all realize how misleading this token of apology is).

For a simplicity´s sake, let´s say I have an all mk8 acc (as many of us do), there is a total of 2 mk1 items to be collected from conts, and the token was 2conts (2 instead of 23 to make it simpler to understand the issue).

1 item is in the common category and one rare.

There´s is no problem with the common category item, as all common rewards are basically useless and happen often, so a free container is enough of a compensation.

But with the rare item, the thing is you need to open a lot of conts to get one (let´s say 10) so it cannot be compensated by another free cont (which will have an useless reward most likely.

The difference is that normally you open lets say 10conts - you get 1 rare reward (cool!)

With this error you open 10conts and you waste your 1 lucky roll on the mk1 item. so infact you just wasted 10conts.

This issue wouldn´t be a thing if the mk1´s weren´t tied to a certain rarity - i.e. you can get them all from commons uncommons rares etc. (then 1cont for 1 mk1 compensation is ok) - but they are indeed tied to rarities, which is the core of the problem.

If there´s a mathematician who could explain it more ´´scientifically´´ I´d be really thankful, because this apology token in fact isn´t just a problem of feelings (oh i couldnt get a rare item) rather a logically flawed and insufficient compensation for a mistake.

Edited January 17, 2022 by frederik123456

stat.padder · January 17, 2022

Ridiculous things that are happening in the game (like 35k Tks skin container, now this container nerf) are tactics to milk money, but not like standard tactics where person sees good deal or something new/op and decides to buy it.

I would call this more like scare tactics. Examples:

1)When I saw unaffordable price of skin container I assumed when the event ends that they will increase prices for skin kits in shop from e.g. 4290 Tks to 35 000 Tks so I bought dictator XT as soon as possible and spent a lot of Tks.

2) This container nerf motivated me to buy secret piggy bank (I thought that crystals are now harder to obtain and, who knows, they might nerf rewards from matchmaking or extra crystals from ads). Also I thought they might remove secret piggy bank and leave only more expensive variants.

Edited January 17, 2022 by stat.padder

Venerable · January 17, 2022

10 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

.

I understand what you're trying to convey.

However, consider this:

1. The Developers intentionally added Mk1 equipment to regular containers

2. These Mk1 items were intentionally assigned rarities.

3. These Mk1 items are meant to become regular rewards in the future, but only if you don't have them in your Garage.

All of this essentially means that they've made certain Mk1 equipment equivalent to some other items when it comes to rarity and value. They have complete rights to do this.

Now, whether or not this is good, ethical, profitable, etc. is another story. I won't get into that for now.

This means that irrespective of what Mk1 you get, irrespective of its rarity, it is still considered a single container's reward. To compensate, another container is considered as a proper replacement.

Using your example, if you get a rare Mk1, then it does not necessarily mean that you were supposed to get a "rare" item. You were never really supposed to get the item in the first place.

Getting another container for this wasted container is perfectly alright, though you may not get an item of the same rarity. But here, do you pause and consider the fact that you can also get an item of a higher rarity? Yes, the chances are low, but the chances are there.

I hope this makes sense!

Venerable · January 17, 2022

31 minutes ago, Bydo said:

I had all MK1 on my tanks and now I have to reload them from containers. which don't make sense .

Of course it doesn't make sense! This is exactly the mistake for which the Developers issued a Token of Apology!

31 minutes ago, Bydo said:

for you not getting MK1 I feel for you and you have to understand why I'm not for how they gave items to players . you and many others now have to wait for a MK1 to come your way. say your expecting a augment but get a MK1 from a container on ranking .would that not get you a little mad , seeing you had spent all that time and crystals working to upgrade it just to have it removed and now have to wait for a container to replace tanki's mistake>?

No, no — you misunderstood me.

Since I had bought every Mk1 hull/turret (after the M to Mk conversion), these Mk1s never showed up in the list of available rewards of regular containers. In other words, it is impossible for me to ever get an Mk1 from a container (even before the Token of Apology containers arrived).

These containers were extra ones that gave me free supplies, crystals, paints, and augments. I will never get any Mk1s in the future as well.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Venerable
Too many typos :(

VIC2000 · January 17, 2022

6 minutes ago, Venerable said:

I hope this makes sense!

All makes sense, doesn't detract from the fact that the devs YET AGAIN have shafted it's players.

They are rather good at doing this and can be considered experts in this field.

Bydo · January 17, 2022

22 minutes ago, Venerable said:

Of course it doesn't make sense! This is exactly the mistake for which the Developers issued a Token of Apology!

No, no — you misunderstood me.

Since I had bought every Mk1 hull/turret (after the M to Mk conversion), these Mk1s never showed up in the list of available rewards of regular containers. In other words, it is impossible for me to ever get an Mk1 from a container (even before the Token of Apology containers arrived).

These containers were extra ones that gave me free supplies, crystals, paints, and augments. I will never get any Mk1s in the future as well.

sir not sure why your not getting them seeing yesterday I got two more to add to the garage. there still in containers . I get why they gave the tokens but they could have done it in a promo code or just gifted to every players account , the container thing was done wrong.

here is proof that they are still in containers / which I would have rather had augments or paints.

Spoiler

Edited January 17, 2022 by Bydo

numericable · January 17, 2022

I agree that the token of applogies is pretty dumb for 2 reasons:

The first one is that there is a limited to collect it, uninformed players will lose container when getting those mk1 in containers. -> they should have atleast given 23 containers directly to everyone, not a special mission which needs to be collected.

Then, this way of solving a problem is kind of scam because let's imagine someone get a rare item that should have been lets say 10k of crystals, instead of this he gets a turret which he had maxed THEREFORE that 23 containers token of apologies doesnt garentee him to get ANOTHER rare item. It is more likely that he will get common items from those 23 containers so in the end of the day, the rare item was lost and not even the 23 conts could make it up. I remind any helper that yesterday i got x15 crystals (1k common) in one set of 15 conts. Other sets gave me X8 at min so not even 23 containers could give me some profit. To really make it worth, they should have given the same number of rare item that was lost and so on. Their way of solving the problem is kind of greedy and misleading for anyone that have a good knowledge of the game OR of how business worth.

Let's make a comparison with real money, 4 different sets:

1 euro for common, 2 euros uncommon, 5 euros (the green rarityi forgot the name) and 10 euros for rare. I opened my containers and got 4 turret for common and 1 turret for rare = that means i lost 14 euros. Then, out of 5 containers lost, i get x5 1 euros. I still need 9 euros from those conts i lost to make it fair. And this case is proportional for the 23 conts.

Venerable · January 17, 2022

14 minutes ago, Bydo said:

sir not sure why your not getting them seeing yesterday I got two more to add to the garage. there still in containers

Ma'am, please read the Token of Apology announcement once again.

The Developers made a mistake: if you had bought Mk2 or higher modifications of a turret, then the system thought that you never had that Mk1 turret in your Garage! Or, if your account is very old: if you had bought the M0 version of a turret and you got the Mk1 version of that turret after the M to Mk conversion, even then the system thought that you never had the Mk1 version of that turret in your Garage.

This was their mistake.

To correct this (and also apologise), they sent 23 containers.

Now, in my case, since "Venerable" is a relatively new account, I had bought the Mk1 versions of every turret and hull directly. I never bought Mk2-Mk7 without owning the Mk1 version first. Also, I never bought any "M0" turret/hull because my account was made after the M--->Mk update.

This means that in the list of available rewards from regular containers, I will not have any Mk1, because the system knows that I had Mk1s in my Garage before. Hence, there was actually no need to compensate me!

If this is still not clear, I would gladly explain it to you via Forum PM! However, please read the Token of Apology announcement once again, and also remember that adding Mk1s to containers was intentional. They simply made a mistake during implementation...

15 minutes ago, Bydo said:

done it in a promo code or just gifted to every players account

Unfortunately, this is not possible. Players below a certain rank (Staff Sergeant, 7th rank) do not have access to all Mk1s. Hence, giving them all Mk1s is not possible.

JoyRide · January 17, 2022

1 hour ago, frederik123456 said:

I´ll actually have to disagree with you aswell.

(I know there´s almost zer0 chance we´ll achieve any extra compensation but we should all realize how misleading this token of apology is).

For a simplicity´s sake, let´s say I have an all mk8 acc (as many of us do), there is a total of 2 mk1 items to be collected from conts, and the token was 2conts (2 instead of 23 to make it simpler to understand the issue).

1 item is in the common category and one rare.

There´s is no problem with the common category item, as all common rewards are basically useless and happen often, so a free container is enough of a compensation.

But with the rare item, the thing is you need to open a lot of conts to get one (let´s say 100) so it cannot be compensated by another free cont (which will have an useless reward most likely.

The difference is that normally you open lets say 10conts - you get 1 legendary reward (cool!)

With this error you open 10conts and you waste your 1 lucky roll on the mk1 item. so infact you just wasted 10conts.

This issue wouldn´t be a thing if the mk1´s weren´t tied to a certain rarity - i.e. you can get them all from commons uncommons rares etc. (then 1cont for 1 mk1 compensation is ok) - but they are indeed tied to rarities, which is the core of the problem.

If there´s a mathematician who could explain it more ´´scientifically´´ I´d be really thankful, because this apology token in fact isn´t just a problem of feelings (oh i couldnt get a rare item) rather a logically flawed and insufficient compensation for a mistake.

It does not need to be any more ´´scientifical´´. Your example is spot on! :)

DestrotankAI9 · January 17, 2022

Spoiler

On 1/14/2022 at 8:16 PM, Person_Random said:

So after the V-LOG, I've just gotten the values for previous container valuation and current container valuation, and setting all other values equal, the value of a container was slashed by over 50%.*

Do note that these are just my personal valuations (which may be different from yours); feel free to make a copy of the sheet or play around with the numbers here.

Additionally, container rewards for missions seems to defeat the purpose - I feel like getting supplies and crystals was a bit better as the rewards were more practical, consistent, and scaled depending on rank. This is not practical nor consistent as rewards are just values listed on a roulette, and furthermore, they do not scale as ranking up does not mean you get more containers per mission or better chances. I feel like some sort of scaling like with weekly containers (or perhaps the previous method with shards) would definitely be a better option for mission rewards.

*Yes, this might be a high number, but again it is my own number - it may be even higher or lower of a change depending on what you value.

On 1/14/2022 at 10:26 PM, Person_Random said:

Well, by making a probability post, that's how.

A tale of two expectations, Part III

Now, we want to find how many expected supplies you will get and how many expected legendary augments you will get before and after the change. We can't do this perfectly, but we can do so with the following assumptions:

Modeling the previous drops of legendary augments with current Ultra Container probabilities assuming the upper tier rewards are still about the same in terms of augment rewards.

Scale the model accordingly for a F2P player playing without Premium over a 2-week challenge period. (e.g. compare current containers to old containers AND compare current # of containers you can earn to current # of containers you could earn)
We then assume the player completes all missions for 2 weeks and completes the challenge completely without the battle pass. We also assume there are 2 ultra weekends, each offering 7 UCs and 5 regular containers.

We also assume the mission rewards to be 3000 crystals and 15 of 3 types of supplies each day just for simplicity.

Add in shard passive income and assume the player earns an additional 50 shards to generate 2 containers per day.

Assume that all the rewards are according to my sheet - that is, all the rare rewards are unlocked so there are more chances of supplies.

Assume the players don't rank up. It would make little difference.

This yields the following:

Pre-update: Player earns 14 UC and 24 Containers, 2 of which are shard containers and not to mention an additional 42000 crystals and 630 supplies for completing missions.

Post-update: Player earns 14 UC and 25 Containers.

Earning Supplies:

To simulate earning supplies, we make the following assumptions:

The prize pool for tiers with multiple prizes is a bag with all rewards listed. (e.g. for common tier for old containers, you would have 3500 crystals, 125 of each supply excluding repair kits/batteries/golds in a bag and you draw one if you get a common prize). I hope this makes sense.

Group all supplies as one "general supply" for simplicity.

Generalize the supply kits as 125 for old containers (there were kits with more but we can ignore those as they do not have a large impact) and 100 for new containers (there are kits with less but we can ignore those as they do not have a large impact).

Now, let's simulate how many supplies you would expect to earn with each prize pool. You just simply look through the prize pool to see how many entries there are for supplies as opposed to other entries, get the proportion of those (listed in each Supply Share Column) and then multiply that with the overall probability to get the EV of supply kits per rarity group. Then once that's done, you add the EV of supply kits per rarity (as getting a common is independent of getting an epic, so the expected values can be added together) to get the end result, or the expected number of supply kits you get when opening a container.

Then add any bonus supplies from challenges and weekly/daily missions, and the final values of supplies you earn throughout the week are obtained:

Assuming you use about 25 supplies in a 15-minute battle and that a player plays about 70 battles a week (total of 140 battles) on average to complete all their missions (including Ultra Weekend and possibly arduous weekly missions).

It's easy to see that you end up with a lot of supplies, and for players who play a lot, they will be constantly lacking supplies. Additionally, I also assumed that all supplies were the same under a pretense of a general supply to make it easier to calculate; however, in reality, often there are fewer repair kits and batteries, which are more crucial and more used, so players can often be in a shortage of supplies from there.

Earning Augments:

This one is a bit easier. You now have 39 chances (14 UC + 25 new containers) as opposed to 14 chances to get legendary augments. Now, let's see how many legendary augments you can expect to earn (assuming you have 35 augments to unlock out of 140 for even 25%):

To get EV Augment, you multiply Augment Share by Chance (0.01 for regular, 0.02 for UC) and then multiply by number of containers through linearity. Then you sum them up as they are independent variables.

This yields the following chances, which do show that your chances of getting a legendary augment is higher. However, you would expect to only earn 1 legendary augment after 1/0.1325 weeks, or about 7-8 weeks, as opposed to the old 1/0.07, which is about 14 weeks. Despite it being better, it doesn't really give you a great chance at getting a legendary augment, much less one that you'll want to use.

Bottom Line:

Earning supplies is going to be a lot harder, and players who lack crucial supplies like repair kits and batteries will be at a disadvantage.
There is still consistent supplies income (from challenges and weekly containers) and players will need to be able to manage their supplies very well to stay afloat.

You do have more chances to get legendary augments; however:
The chances are still very low, so you will need to open a lot of containers to get your hands on one special augment.

On top of that, you cannot select which augments you prefer - you could end up with something like rubberized rounds, which could be completely useless.

Thanks for doing the work to post these :) Now that we have the percentages (or claimed percentages for both new and old containers, it is very valuable to have an estimate of the difference in the value of both types of container, as well as a comparison of the changes to average income levels in terms of supplies/crystals, as well as the likelihood of obtaining "imba" Legendary augments.

And as expected, the value of containers overall, and the average income levels players will earn in terms of crystals/supplies have fallen dramatically. I am really disappointed about this, as I can already see my supply count going critically low, even when playing missions only - it will not be fun to no longer be able to use the drones I have spent a lot of time, and millions of crystals upgrading, and also to try to compete against heavy buyers with no repair kits or batteries, using Brutus drone.

I no longer have the supplies to play a few games for fun after doing missions - this update will seriously hurt the gameplay experience (or "fun") of actually playing Tanki for free players or light buyers - so many are very likely to leave because of these changes. They are free to do whatever they want with the game, but I personally think this is a very bad way to go. The previous system was good - and players who are having fun tend to keep playing - and also therefore, to spend more. Players who quit, won't contribute anything financially to the game again, nor will they be around and playing, to help improve matchmaking queue times. So I don't think this update is in the long-term interests of any category of player, or the developers themselves.

Also, the loss of premium (combined with the nerf to rank-up income) is another big hit to income at Legend. Players who played regularly were able to get premium reasonably often, now for free players it will be basically inaccessible - and that will mean battle funds are now halved, while you no longer benefit from reasonably regular 40k crystal bonuses. Overall, crystal income has been hit very hard indeed.

And may I once again apologise for the tone of my response to your first post - I must say that I did think it could have been an attempt to distract from the bad aspects of this update (not least because very often, there are positive replies from helpers in the topic about any update, no matter whether all players dislike it, or otherwise). But you have clearly shown yourself with these posts to be giving an unbiased analysis, so thanks :) (And I know some helpers are willing to share negative opinions as well as positive sometimes too - which I respect). This information is very helpful - and clearly explains the consequences of these changes. I hope the developers will take note of players feedback on what they have done with containers, and go some way to reversing these changes.

13 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

@Yveltal9 Unannouced in the patch note were nerfs to the Status Railguns and Large Calibre Rounds with Viking's Overdrive. These are what the changes to the number of shots fired and damage coefficients look like:

Incendiary Railgun

17 shots ---> 13 shots

x3 ---> x2.5

Cryo Railgun

17 shots ---> 13 shots

x3 ---> x2.5

EMP Railgun

17 shots ---> 13 shots

x3 ---> x2.5

AP Railgun

17 shots ---> 13 shots

x3 ---> x2.2

Stun Railgun

17 shots ---> 13 shots

x3 ---> x2.5

Large Calibre Rounds

13 shots ---> 13 shots

x2.5 ---> x1.92

@DestrotankAI9 Additionally, Round Destabilisation's damage coefficient is still x1. That was not fixed so my guess would be that it's intentional, for whatever reason.

Interesting, I am guessing this happened because of the Legendary augments being added to regular containers. The change to Large Calibre Rounds with Viking is bizarre however - why do they feel the need to reduce it? It seems they really hate this augment, it is pathetically weak in its current form, and nerfing it with Viking as well is just kicking it when it is down. No-one uses an augment that has that much less dps than the stock turret, anyway.

The lack of coefficient change on Round Destablisation seems strange. I am very unimpressed that they haven't bothered to fix this. I do still suspect it is a bug, but they simply haven't cared enough to fix it. Even by the developers' logic, I don't see why they would want one specific Railgun augment, and only one, to have no increased damage coefficient during Viking overdrive.

Edited January 17, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

Bydo · January 17, 2022

1 hour ago, Venerable said:

Ma'am, please read the Token of Apology announcement once again.

The Developers made a mistake: if you had bought Mk2 or higher modifications of a turret, then the system thought that you never had that Mk1 turret in your Garage! Or, if your account is very old: if you had bought the M0 version of a turret and you got the Mk1 version of that turret after the M to Mk conversion, even then the system thought that you never had the Mk1 version of that turret in your Garage.

This was their mistake.

To correct this (and also apologise), they sent 23 containers.

Now, in my case, since "Venerable" is a relatively new account, I had bought the Mk1 versions of every turret and hull directly. I never bought Mk2-Mk7 without owning the Mk1 version first. Also, I never bought any "M0" turret/hull because my account was made after the M--->Mk update.

This means that in the list of available rewards from regular containers, I will not have any Mk1, because the system knows that I had Mk1s in my Garage before. Hence, there was actually no need to compensate me!

If this is still not clear, I would gladly explain it to you via Forum PM! However, please read the Token of Apology announcement once again, and also remember that adding Mk1s to containers was intentional. They simply made a mistake during implementation...

Unfortunately, this is not possible. Players below a certain rank (Staff Sergeant, 7th rank) do not have access to all Mk1s. Hence, giving them all Mk1s is not possible.

sir what it all comes down to is that the way tanki handled how they did mk1 and confusing players on giving containers .. along with the changes to containers has made it a huge mess. over time this topic like many other's will be a think of the past and we will have moved on from it. lets hope that Tanki has learned a lesson how and what came out of all of this.

for your issue I don't see why they changed lower ranks and removed mk1 seeing others who have been sitting on lower rank accounts for a long time and have collected mk1 will have advantageous over new tanks. this also if you look at higher ranks also have way more drugs or augmentations then new legends moving up in the ranks. giving us a track up. they did not need to remove items from containers . what they should be doing which I have mentioned years ago was to allow players at Legend ranks to sell back supplies , or even cap supplies so we no longer get - for example a player with say 750k in double damage compared to a new legend at the same level only having 34k in supplies. not all players use drugs / such as battery's for drones , speed , ?? .. this is what should have been done not reducing supplies.

also think about this...

what if say you collected a wasp MK1 today and then five days later the system gives it to you again . what then.. you don't get crystals for the systems mistake cause it's not been programed to read your inventory in the garage. see this has been all ready happening with other items such as augments / ?? given to us from containers and the system does not give us a refund or replacement with crystals for it. giving us a lost of a containers . imaging if this happens more then one what then??

Edited January 17, 2022 by Bydo

DestrotankAI9 · January 17, 2022

On another topic, I actually think that while the container/mission/rank up changes were extremely bad, the balance changes in this patch were reasonably good (or at least the intention behind them).

Tesla nerf was good. Paladin nerf was good (and not too excessive - Paladin is still useful, but easier to kill. Some small changes may still be needed, but a big improvement to Paladin balance). Firebird buff was good. Freeze nerf was necessary (however Freeze and/or Freezing status effect, still needs signficant changes).

I didn't like all the balance changes though: The change to Shock Freeze augment was unnecessary. Shock Freeze is one of the most interesting augments in the game - with a general nerf to Freeze, this augment was perfectly fine as it was, there were no changes needed. Removing critical damage from it makes it far too weak, compared to the other Freeze augments, which is bad as - as I saw - Shock Freeze is one of the more interesting and fun augments to use. As I say, what SHOULD have been changed with this augment is that Freeze in general should have been nerfed more - let's say a significant nerf to Freeze critical damage, as well as a reduction in the power of the Freezing status effect (change "removes Boosted damage effect" to "reduces target's rate of fire by 20%") - and then with a general nerf to Freeze, Shock Freeze would have been fine the way it was.

As it is, Freeze in general has not been nerfed enough, but Shock Freeze has received an unnecessarily large nerf - when it was not OP when compared to other Freeze augments.

The economic changes however - and the effective removal of premium from being obtainable by most players - are highly unfair, and will result in players having not enough supplies to play more than a handful of games. Which is surely very counterproductive for queue times, and very boring.

Thankxtu · January 17, 2022

By far the most controversial update ever seen. (wasnt there during mk conversion and mm implementaion but i assume its on their level lol)

Venerable · January 17, 2022

1 hour ago, Bydo said:

sir what it all comes down to is that the way tanki handled how they did mk1 and confusing players on giving containers .. along with the changes to containers has made it a huge mess. over time this topic like many other's will be a think of the past and we will have moved on from it. lets hope that Tanki has learned a lesson how and what came out of all of this.

Well... yes, this entire update and the feedback received will definitely be a lesson, because in my honest opinion, there should have been no confusion at all — but people still got confused, so Tanki could have explained everything in a better way to avoid all this.

1 hour ago, Bydo said:

for your issue I don't see why they changed lower ranks and removed mk1 seeing others who have been sitting on lower rank accounts for a long time and have collected mk1 will have advantageous over new tanks. this also if you look at higher ranks also have way more drugs or augmentations then new legends moving up in the ranks. giving us a track up. they did not need to remove items from containers .

According to me, this particular update is an intermediate step before a major update. The reasoning given by developers for adding Mk1s to containers is this (in the V-LOG): "this will help new players to better understand the mechanics of a turret before moving on to a new turret". I am not yet fully convinced by this, and hence I won't comment further.

I think a few weeks after this update, every high-ranked player will have easily removed all Mk1s from the list of available rewards of regular containers. Hence, this update of adding Mk1s to containers won't affect them at all.

1 hour ago, Bydo said:

what if say you collected a wasp MK1 today and then five days later the system gives it to you again . what then.. you don't get crystals for the systems mistake cause it's not been programed to read your inventory in the garage. see this has been all ready happening with other items such as augments / ?? given to us from containers and the system does not give us a refund or replacement with crystals for it. giving us a lost of a containers . imaging if this happens more then one what then??

If you got Wasp Mk1 today, then rest assured that you will never get it again. If, by any tiny chance, you get it again, then you can write to Tech Support and seek a refund (help@tankionline.com).

You should not be getting augments again if you already own them. That is definitely a bug and you can ask for a refund (contact Tech Support for this, again).

numericable · January 17, 2022

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Hide contents

Thanks for doing the work to post these :) Now that we have the percentages (or claimed percentages for both new and old containers, it is very valuable to have an estimate of the difference in the value of both types of container, as well as a comparison of the changes to average income levels in terms of supplies/crystals, as well as the likelihood of obtaining "imba" Legendary augments.

And as expected, the value of containers overall, and the average income levels players will earn in terms of crystals/supplies have fallen dramatically. I am really disappointed about this, as I can already see my supply count going critically low, even when playing missions only - it will not be fun to no longer be able to use the drones I have spent a lot of time, and millions of crystals upgrading, and also to try to compete against heavy buyers with no repair kits or batteries, using Brutus drone.

I no longer have the supplies to play a few games for fun after doing missions - this update will seriously hurt the gameplay experience (or "fun") of actually playing Tanki for free players or light buyers - so many are very likely to leave because of these changes. They are free to do whatever they want with the game, but I personally think this is a very bad way to go. The previous system was good - and players who are having fun tend to keep playing - and also therefore, to spend more. Players who quit, won't contribute anything financially to the game again, nor will they be around and playing, to help improve matchmaking queue times. So I don't think this update is in the long-term interests of any category of player, or the developers themselves.

Also, the loss of premium (combined with the nerf to rank-up income) is another big hit to income at Legend. Players who played regularly were able to get premium reasonably often, now for free players it will be basically inaccessible - and that will mean battle funds are now halved, while you no longer benefit from reasonably regular 40k crystal bonuses. Overall, crystal income has been hit very hard indeed.

And may I once again apologise for the tone of my response to your first post - I must say that I did think it could have been an attempt to distract from the bad aspects of this update (not least because very often, there are positive replies from helpers in the topic about any update, no matter whether all players dislike it, or otherwise). But you have clearly shown yourself with these posts to be giving an unbiased analysis, so thanks :) (And I know some helpers are willing to share negative opinions as well as positive sometimes too - which I respect). This information is very helpful - and clearly explains the consequences of these changes. I hope the developers will take note of players feedback on what they have done with containers, and go some way to reversing these changes.

Interesting, I am guessing this happened because of the Legendary augments being added to regular containers. The change to Large Calibre Rounds with Viking is bizarre however - why do they feel the need to reduce it? It seems they really hate this augment, it is pathetically weak in its current form, and nerfing it with Viking as well is just kicking it when it is down. No-one uses an augment that has that much less dps than the stock turret, anyway.

The lack of coefficient change on Round Destablisation seems strange. I am very unimpressed that they haven't bothered to fix this. I do still suspect it is a bug, but they simply haven't cared enough to fix it. Even by the developers' logic, I don't see why they would want one specific Railgun augment, and only one, to have no increased damage coefficient during Viking overdrive.

Bro you will have to buy supplies with your crystals, each big legend rank is doing this, even if the profit would be less, your fun time would be better if you are using booster, and you will not stress about not having the necessarily supplies to compete. Thats my reasoning thats why i bought 200k DD last sales. Also for batteries, i had saved 10k from conts so i will have 10k minutes to play then i will have to buy them with crystals too.

DestrotankAI9 · January 17, 2022

17 minutes ago, numericable said:

Bro you will have to buy supplies with your crystals, each big legend rank is doing this, even if the profit would be less, your fun time would be better if you are using booster, and you will not stress about not having the necessarily supplies to compete. Thats my reasoning thats why i bought 200k DD last sales. Also for batteries, i had saved 10k from conts so i will have 10k minutes to play then i will have to buy them with crystals too.

Yep seems like it... well in that case, we take a huge hit to crystal income. Truly dramatic hit, if we have lost 1/2-2/3 of crystal income, and have to buy supplies on top of that.

In fact, I don't even think, if you are upgrading, that you will be able to afford to buy supplies also. Considering the fact we have lost premium, a huge amount of crystals from containers, missions and rank-ups. Only someone with an already maxed garage may be able to afford to buy more supplies also - unless you get crystals from another source such as contests/battle pass.

Edited January 17, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

numericable · January 17, 2022

13 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Yep seems like it... well in that case, we take a huge hit to crystal income. Truly dramatic hit, if we have lost 1/2-2/3 of crystal income, and have to buy supplies on top of that.

In fact, I don't even think, if you are upgrading, that you will be able to afford to buy supplies also. Considering the fact we have lost premium, a huge amount of crystals from containers, missions and rank-ups. Only someone with an already maxed garage may be able to afford to buy more supplies also - unless you get crystals from another source such as contests/battle pass.

Earlier in 2018, i was at f2p status and had full maxed garage, i upgraded items smartly, lile one steps of everything during any sales HOWEVER the protection module, i upgraded one step each BUT only during 50% sales. Also, you dont need all drones maxed, just find your drone, like mine is booster as i like to attack more, im not a passive guy. Booster works well in any situation so recommend it to you over defender. Also, if you can, play on mobile, it is alot of easier than pc, at first you will not be accomoded, but trust me, it is waaaay easier gameplay and income from ads like legend 130 i get 3k crys supplement. (We can say it is my free premium xD). Feel free to ask any piece of advice if you want to.

DestrotankAI9 · January 17, 2022

20 minutes ago, numericable said:

Earlier in 2018, i was at f2p status and had full maxed garage, i upgraded items smartly, lile one steps of everything during any sales HOWEVER the protection module, i upgraded one step each BUT only during 50% sales. Also, you dont need all drones maxed, just find your drone, like mine is booster as i like to attack more, im not a passive guy. Booster works well in any situation so recommend it to you over defender. Also, if you can, play on mobile, it is alot of easier than pc, at first you will not be accomoded, but trust me, it is waaaay easier gameplay and income from ads like legend 130 i get 3k crys supplement. (We can say it is my free premium xD). Feel free to ask any piece of advice if you want to.

Thanks for the advice, but I can't play on mobile and never will - don't play mobile games for various reasons. I know the income is higher, but I will always be a PC player.

Yes I know how to manage crystals, but that was in the old days. We are now in a situation where we have no more premium, and also containers have lost 2/3 of their value - rank ups have lost dramatic value, daily missions and battle passes have lost value, and that is just considering crystals - also getting far less supplies.

So if you choose to buy supplies as a free player, you could end up with virtually no crystals for upgrades (might do slightly better if you are a mobile player, sure). But generally, they have hit free players/light buyers income far too hard with this patch.

Edited January 17, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

numericable · January 17, 2022

6 minutes ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I can't play on mobile and never will - don't play mobile games for various reasons. I know the income is higher, but I will always be a PC player.

Yes I know how to manage crystals, but that was in the old days. We are now in a situation where we have no more premium, and also containers have lost 2/3 of their value - rank ups have lost dramatic value, daily missions and battle passes have lost value, and that is just considering crystals - also getting far less supplies.

So if you choose to buy supplies as a free player, you could end up with virtually no crystals for upgrades (might do slightly better if you are a mobile player, sure). But generally, they have hit free players/light buyers income far too hard with this patch.

I think it is easier than in old day to make crystals because now we have x4 fund each week ends. Also, be4, there wasnt containers. I think containers is a supplement now, dont rely on them. Real containers are UC now. The ones who will suffer from this update the most are low ranks as the containers couldnt handle the boosted XP anymore. But i still think a legend player could go well if he buys supplies with crystals.

TheCongoSpider · January 17, 2022

13 minutes ago, numericable said:

I think it is easier than in old day to make crystals because now we have x4 fund each week ends. Also, be4, there wasnt containers. I think containers is a supplement now, dont rely on them. Real containers are UC now. The ones who will suffer from this update the most are low ranks as the containers couldnt handle the boosted XP anymore. But i still think a legend player could go well if he buys supplies with crystals.

The developers stated in a Vlog that it is intentional that a player gains most of their income and consumables from containers/missions/challenges and not directly from battles. So yes, we do have to rely on them. Most people who don't have maxed garages or combos they are interested in using but not have upgraded have to rely on them.

DMR · January 17, 2022

Let's hope the next vlog, we won't have again annoying ultra weekend, we need true news, that's what most people are waiting for! New interface, new turret, pro battle change, etc...

Edited January 17, 2022 by Yveltal9

Challenge	Start Date	End Date
1	15.08	29.08
2	29.08	05.09
3	05.09	12.09
4	12.09	19.09
5	19.09	26.09
6	26.09	3.10
7	3.10	10.10
8	10.10	17.10

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