update Patch Update #679 - Released 18th February 2022

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

58 minutes ago, numericable said:

Wow i never seen such a long comment on the forum, how long did you write it?

Lol :P Are you sure you haven't? You mustn't have seen many of my posts then, I am sure I have a few that are longer  I didn't time it but probably took me about 10-15 minutes, 20 at most.

I am not a builder in real life, but I am very capable of building virtual walls. I hope you appreciate this text wall :)

Edited February 23, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[alkyng 3,080]

1 hour ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

even as a free player in maybe 1 year, or 3/6 months if you are lucky.

For experienced players, if you played for 1 year (or even lesser) for one hour a day, you can get a very good garage. In example with 1.2M, you can get a maxed drone in 50/70 % Micro sales, which isn't too expensive nowadays.  But honestly experienced players, are no more interested in speeding a huge time in battles, and maybe some weeks off of playing.   And new players who are interested in spending 1-3 hours a day, don't have the enough experience to maintain such requirements, there are too many things in the game which is complicated for them. You see the dilemma

Forget the about other points I want to quote, switching from paragraph to paragraph make me forget where am I.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

For experienced players, if you played for 1 year (or even lesser) for one hour a day, you can get a very good garage. In example with 1.2M, you can get a maxed drone in 50/70 % Micro sales, which isn't too expensive nowadays.  But honestly experienced players, are no more interested in speeding a huge time in battles, and maybe some weeks off of playing.   And new players who are interested in spending 1-3 hours a day, don't have the enough experience to maintain such requirements, there are too many things in the game which is complicated for them. You see the dilemma

Forget the about other points I want to quote, switching from paragraph to paragraph make me forget where am I.

For sure. If you can play enough to at least complete the silver tier of challenges, that speeds progression up a lot - because then you can buy those special offers (such as the one available during the last Tanki fund), and/or buy battle passes reasonably often. With battle passes, you can choose which hull augments you get - so if you want to get immunities against every status effect you can get there eventually - even without luck. But everyone is also likely to get a few immunities by luck too, more likely with the more containers that you get.

If you complete challenges often, then in 1 year you should definitely have a hull augment to protect against every status effect (spread between hulls). But in fact, you can get there in 3 / 6 months or less, if you get lucky. As a free player, I have earned far more than just one of each immunity augment in 1 year of play, although I was able to play regularly. So those saying that free players can't be in this position are not speaking the truth - yes it can be hard for lower rank Legends, and also it takes much longer for players who have very little time to play, but you can get those immunity augments eventually. And not being able to change immunity augments (or modules) would be a big problem against status augments. A very big problem. I would really hate to see such a change in-game, and I can't believe some people are thinking it might be a good thing.

Edited February 24, 2022 by DestrotankAI9

[numericable 2,375]

7 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Lol :P Are you sure you haven't? You mustn't have seen many of my posts then, I am sure I have a few that are longer  I didn't time it but probably took me about 10-15 minutes, 20 at most.

I am not a builder in real life, but I am very capable of building virtual walls. I hope you appreciate this text wall :)

I liked the long text wall but i do not think devs deserve such long constructive feedback as they mostly do not listen to their player base therefore, you could save those precious 20 minutes bro

[NikmanGT 4,362]

20 minutes ago, numericable said:

you could save those precious 20 minutes bro

[Abellia 504]

17 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

I don't really have time for long drawn-out discussions right now, but I see some players here talking about how if we removed equipment changing it would be good for the game. Total madness I'm afraid, that would be simply disastrous. I can understand the logic behind limited equipment cooldowns (personally I think a 5 minute change time would be ideal), but a 10-minute change cooldown or even a maximum of 1 change per battle is the absolute limit as to how far it should go. Equipment changing certainly has its flaws, but removing it would cause several very important aspects of the game to break down, and numerous other big problems. It would not be good for anyone, be they free players, light buyers or heavy, despite what some here have claimed - because it would simply ruin the dynamics of the game.

We don't even have to theorise about this, because in fact we have had special DM modes with the garage turned off - and we got a chance to see what it would be like. Having no equipment changes is fine for limited-time, special modes - it is always nice to have something different, and to play the game with different rules for a special event. But there were clear issues with this rule, and while it is fine for temporary events, putting it in permanently to all battles in Matchmaking would be a huge mistake. Allow me to explain why removing equipment changing would be awful:

1) You would end up having to quit many more battles, since you joined with no counter to enemy players.

Having to leave battles is very annoying, and a huge waste of time. We have to wait quite a long time in the queue, then for the battle to load - I don't want to do that and then have to leave a battle, only to repeat the process again. This is NOT fun. Every step should be made to prevent players from having to leave battles, and to make each battle as playable as possible - this change would be the opposite of that. If you have the wrong equipment to counter the enemy team, rather than changing it, your only option would be pretty much to leave and find another battle. How are you going to deal with an enemy team with EMP Gauss & Smoky if you have AP immunity equipped? Stun Striker and Stun Rail with no stun immunity? AP Freeze with no AP Immunity? Or even, if you have the wrong modules? It would be painful and unplayable.

Now, I know that many forum users already say that they leave battles regularly as it is. As a free player, I must say that I don't. Even if my team is losing, right now I am generally able to stay and make the most of nearly every battle I enter (and I am a free player by the way), even if your team is losing you can for instance make good progress on "finish battles" missions, or you may still be able to get a reasonable score. I hate being forced to leave battles, and I generally get away without doing it much right now. But with this change, things would be very different. For the special DM modes that had equipment changes turned off, if I had the wrong equipment I WAS forced to leave the battle, or it would be unplayable. I don't want to see this in regular MM, for every game.

2) The module system would break down.

Modules are a crucial aspect of Legend battles, if you have the wrong modules against the best players on the enemy team you tend to get wrecked, rather fast. For modules to actually be useful, you need to be able to change them based on what the enemy team is using.

If you can't change modules, certain modules would become almost useless. As we are not psychic to know what combos our enemies will be using before the battle, you would simply have to equip modules for every game which would be the best "on average". For instance, right now someone might equip Freeze/Smoky/Vulcan/Striker protection every game. With no equipment change, what would be the point in owning Ricochet/Thunder/Magnum protection? Why would you go into battle with any off-meta protection? You wouldn't - certain protections would become useless. On the other hand, if opponents had turrets which you were not protected against, the battle would be unplayable. This simply wouldn't work at all, and would destroy the module system.

3) The hull augment system would break down.

This would potentially be even worse. If the enemy team has players with EMP/AP/Stun augments, or even some of the other status effects too - in order to have a chance you need to equip the right hull augments. If you can't, the game can be nearly unplayable. As I said earlier, if you entered a match and the enemy team has a ton of augments of a cetain status effect, and you have the wrong immunity, you would simply have to leave - instead of being able to change hull augment like we can now. This would be ridiculously bad.

4) There would be less point in building up a diverse garage, and hence less of a sense of "progression".

As @DaringDeer points out, what would be the point of building up a strong, diverse garage if we don't have equipment changes? You might as well just use one or two strong turret/augment combos and you wouldn't really need anything else, and as I said earlier - you wouldn't need certain protection modules or hull augments. That would really be rather stupid.

5)Quick battle would no be viable, at all.

You need to change combo based on map and mode, and indeed sometimes based on what the enemy team is using. With quick battle, you don't know what mode or map you will be placed in. Titan Isida with support nanobots and Defender drone may work on Cross Siege, but what about for Berlin CTF? Etc. This would not work at all.

DISCLAIMER: Now, for many of my points you will see that I am assuming players have a wide range of modules, and of hull augments. It is true that these can be hard to acquire, but even as a free player you can get them over time (made much easier if you have the time to complete challenge silver tiers for the 100 tankoins). You can get these augments via battle passes, or via luck, and if you are able to play regularly you should be able to get a hull augment to protect against every status effect eventually even as a free player in maybe 1 year, or 3/6 months if you are lucky. I know as I have done it myself as a free player. So yes it is painful before you get those hull augments, but it helps a lot vs status effects when you do. Ditto for modules - it takes a while to get a good set of modules, but you will get there eventually.

However, if you take away equipment changing then status effects are going to be much more a problem for everyone - not if you get "lucky" and just happen to have the right hull augment equipped, but it will be a problem in that if you have the wrong one you will simply have to quit the match. This will be very annoying.

Also, it is true that some players will change turret/augment/hull augment to counter what you or your team are using, and they may even do that after you have made the change, to "counter your counter". But the fact is, they have more players to worry about on your team than just you. So they will be making changes based on other players on your team, and also the entire enemy team will be very unlikely to change their equipment at the same time. So the fact is, by being able to chose your modules/hull augment you get a much better chance to be protected against the enemy team than if this option was removed. I know, because I change modules and hull augments pretty much every battle, and it isn't perfect but it works to some extent. Having co-ordinated enemy teams who all change augments together is VERY rare, and if you met such teams as a solo player - you are probably going to lose anyway.

So this is my reasoning behind why I think removing equipment changes would be awful, for all players. The most that can be done would be limiting changes to a maximum of once per battle, but any more than that would be very bad indeed. Those players that are speaking positively about the removal of equipment changing, would very soon regret it I think once if it was actually implemented, and they were forced to deal with the downsides first-hand.

So, gameplay QOL. None of this addresses balance, which is the issue it solves for the f2ps. It's like @LambSauce said, it's not great but it's the lesser of two evils. If you compare the impact being able to swap has on the game vs being unable to swap, one is very clearly more fair to players with a less diverse garage - aka most f2p players, and thus promotes balance. It has to be done.

 

[Cor7y 13,862]

26 minutes ago, Abellia said:

one is very clearly more fair to players with a less diverse garage - aka most f2p players, and thus promotes balance. It has to be done.

Ahem. This is the Tanki forum. Ideas regarding improvement in QOL for f2p players are not permitted.

[LambSauce 1,884]

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

You would end up having to quit many more battles, since you joined with no counter to enemy players.

Well, yes that is pretty much an inevitable consequence of MMO games. Tanki is not a MOBA like Dota or LoL. Leaving matches early in those games is punished. Here, on the other hand, we have something much closer to an MMORPG but without the PvE element. Therefore equipment switching during matches doesn’t even make sense in this kind of game because not everyone is equal in stats and attack power.

And why should the players spending hundreds of dollars a month be able to switch equipment and have a counter to everything thrown at them? Do esports matches have equipment changing? Pretty sure they don’t, and for good reason.

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Quick battle would no be viable, at all.

This could be easily solved if they allowed everyone to select equipment at the start of the match, during the pre-match period that they told us about in a recent Vlog. In fact I’m under the impression that the devs are planning something similar to this in any case.

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

There would be less point in building up a diverse garage, and hence less of a sense of "progression".

Tanki didn’t have equipment changes during battles in its early years and yet I never saw anyone complaining about a “lack of progression” back then. In fact it wasn’t even that bad. You played the cards you were dealt in each battle.

And even if does turn out exactly as you say, it’s a sacrifice that should be made for the sake of balance. At least give the F2P players more of a fighting chance. Since the devs have put everything into containers and everyone is at the mercy of RNG, why not extend that to battles as well?

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

The module system would break down.

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

The hull augment system would break down.

Again, this would easily be solved if everyone can equip more than one resistance/immunity and more than four module slots at a time. Moreover adding more slots for everything totally sounds like something the devs would do, although in their case it would be for the sake of profits rather than balance.

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Also, it is true that some players will change turret/augment/hull augment to counter what you or your team are using, and they may even do that after you have made the change, to "counter your counter".

You say this like it’s not problematic that players are checking the enemy team’s equipment and going into the garage to change equipment every so often instead of focusing on the battle. Right now it’s like a game of rock-paper-scissors with augments and modules and it’s such an annoyance to have to change them up every couple of minutes or so. Better to just get rid of the whole damn thing.

18 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Those players that are speaking positively about the removal of equipment changing, would very soon regret it I think once if it was actually implemented, and they were forced to deal with the downsides first-hand.

Oh, it was implemented, even as recently as 2015, and in my experience it wasn’t nearly as bad as you make it out to be, even with battles back then that were on average far longer than the current 15 minutes.

[LambSauce 1,884]

3 minutes ago, frederik123456 said:

How so? 

I believe it was sarcasm.

[Dopamine 2,161]

2 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

I believe it was sarcasm.

Yeah, my question was kind of redundand , nevermind.

Edited February 24, 2022 by frederik123456

[YANUKFIN 493]

And the complaints just keep rolling in. 

1. MM, joke.

2. Status effects, don't need them.

3. Augments, don't need them.

4. Overdrives, don't need them.

5. Shop (constant price increases)

6. Constant OP game changers, (buyers only.)

7. The change to the upgrading system, (worst update ever.)

8. Containers, joke.  After update, bigger joke.

9. Balance, does not exist.

10. Developers, on a par with containers.

11. Floating trash cans, designed for mobile players, no lifers, (little kids)

12. Equipment changing times, no idea what they hope to achieve from this, apart from more complaints. 

All of the above and a whole lot more have totally ruined the game, and NO'10 is to blame for all of it.  

 

[DaringDeer 656]

8 hours ago, LambSauce said:

Do esports matches have equipment changing? Pretty sure they don’t, and for good reason.

Equipment change is allowed in eSports and is a critical part of the strategy. 

The current version of eSports doesn't allow turret/hull alterations or protection modules so you can only change turret and hull while maintaining no duplication within the team.  

Older formats (light/medium/hard/setups/TOF) had format-specific changing rules.  In all modes except light you can change something.  

[wolverine848 13,097]

11 hours ago, LambSauce said:

Again, this would easily be solved if everyone can equip more than one resistance/immunity and more than four module slots at a time.

Are you serious? How does this not cater to the Buyers?

They'd be laughing all the way to the top of the score-board EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.

[Frylock 1,617]

9 hours ago, Rutgers said:

The vast majority of dynamics of the game has changed since 2015 and prior years though. Not everything, but It isn't the simple "druggers ruin the game" rhetoric anymore. One has to account for modules, augments, immunities, etc in this present meta. And with an abundance of these new factors introduced into the game, a "no equipment change" restriction would be detrimental. 

 

As for protections back then, yes players were subjected to "no equipment change". However, if you were to actually go back in time, one would witness a higher frequency of paints being used more often than others. Emerald and Inferno were the two most used M3 paints, and you would see paints such as Needle or Jade occur at a much lesser frequency. Why? Thunder and Freeze were the best turrets back then, whilst Shaft and Isida (powerful in their own right) were weaker, and as a result, less common. If such a restriction as you describe were implemented today, we would see the same consequences as we did in years prior. Certain modules (Striker ,Tesla, Freeze) would occur at a much higher frequency that other turrets, such as Thunder, (more so than what we see already) because people would have to guess what turrets might have the highest chance of being presented in a battle, rather than having the right to assess the battle as it is occurring. 

 

Not to mention that M3 paints back then really only had one protection that had 40% or more to a certain turret, while its other protections were significantly lower (Ex. Emerald had 42% protection to Thunder, 26% Twins, and 10% Railgun). Today, one can attain 4 modules with a maximum of 50% protection for each of them. Comparing this modern system to the old one would be a false equivalency.

 

With all due respect, your view on hull augments is just as  as it is on modules. Equipping 2 hull immunities would have serious repercussions to gameplay. Are you seriously advocating for a person to be immune to both Fire and Freeze Status Effects? To be completely immune to the turret-defining capabilities Firebird and Freeze possess? That is, in it of itself, a huge insult to these turrets. Moreover, if one were to equip both EMP & Stun Immunity in conjunction, Hunter's overdrive would need a massive rework - its effects almost completely negated. I don't see how this argument would help F2P players at all. Most F2P players can barely afford one hull augment, let alone two. Buyers, on the other hand, would have a field day with what you presented...the opposite of your goal.

 

As for increasing the number of modules, that is pretty self-explanatory. We should only ever increase the number of modules as the number of turrets increase.

 

 

Actually having 2 hull augment slots is not a bad idea right now. Why? Currently we have too many status effects which there are 6 total. With the current meta, 2 hull augment slots will be necessary. Though sure it may be locked behind a paywall, it would be better to have 2 hull augments since now the developers  decided to make dual status augments with more effects. So having one hull augment slot would be rendered useless at some point. We as players will just learn how to adapt to changes till the end. For now Im just playing the wait and see game.

Edited February 25, 2022 by MysticBlood

[alkyng 3,080]

10 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Actually having 2 hull augment slots is not a bad idea right now. Why? Currently we have too many status effects which there are 6 total. With the current meta, 2 hull augment slots will be necessary. Though sure it may be locked behind a paywall, it would be better to have 2 hull augments since now the developers  decided to make dual status augments with more effects. So having one hull augment slot would be rendered useless at some point. We as players will just learn how to adapt to changes till the end. For now Im just playing the wait and see game.

Regardless of that having two hull augment slots now is a must for everyone, but as it will be behind paywall and most of non-buyers have their immunities scattered over hulls. No, I don't want this update, the game is more balanced without it.  It's like overdrives, everyone is suffering from them buyers and non-buyers.  The game is better without the two (status effects&ODs)

[Frylock 1,617]

19 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Regardless of that having two hull augment slots now is a must for everyone, but as it will be behind paywall and most of non-buyers have their immunities scattered over hulls. No, I don't want this update, the game is more balanced without it.  It's like overdrives, everyone is suffering from them buyers and non-buyers.  The game is better without the two (status effects&ODs)

To be fair, I would assume that players would have at least some immunities and at least 2 hull augments for their most used hull prior to the container updates. Also keep in mind that lately they have been giving some free tankoins from special missions lately. So technically it is now more easier to get battle passes with immunities for a f2p. 

Honestly I don't see ods that much of an issue anymore since that all of the ods are delayed. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by MysticBlood

[alkyng 3,080]

18 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

To be fair, I would assume that players would have at least some immunities and at least 2 hull augments for their most used hull prior to the container updates. Also keep in mind that lately they have been giving some free tankoins from special missions lately. So technically it is now more easier to get battle passes with immunities for a f2p. 

Honestly I don't see ods that much of an issue anymore since that all of the ods are delayed. 

With the recent 2022 + 300 + 300 Tankoins, yes.

[LambSauce 1,884]

7 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Are you serious? How does this not cater to the Buyers?

They'd be laughing all the way to the top of the score-board EVERY SINGLE BATTLE.

Would they? They won’t be able to switch to protect themselves against whichever status effects are dominant in that battle. They would just have to try and guess or use the “meta” immunities.

It will probably eventually happen anyway as the devs release more status effects.

[wolverine848 13,097]

10 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

To be fair, I would assume that players would have at least some immunities and at least 2 hull augments for their most used hull prior to the container updates. Also keep in mind that lately they have been giving some free tankoins from special missions lately. So technically it is now more easier to get battle passes with immunities for a f2p. 

Honestly I don't see ods that much of an issue anymore since that all of the ods are delayed. 

You'd be wrong.  At least in terms of immunities.  Equipping one immunity and one (garage) resistance is not even close to the same as equipping AP+EMP immunities.

[wolverine848 13,097]

4 hours ago, LambSauce said:

Would they?

Yes they would.  Picking two of AP / EMP / Stun will do wonders for their score.  That's double compared to what more than half of the players in the game will be able to do.

[LambSauce 1,884]

45 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Yes they would.  Picking two of AP / EMP / Stun will do wonders for their score.  That's double compared to what more than half of the players in the game will be able to do.

If they choose, let’s say, AP and EMP immunities, with no option to change, that still leaves them completely vulnerable to Burning, Cold, Stun and Jammer.

Right now they can change to whichever immunity they want based on the most problematic status effect they face. Take that away and, even with two immunities, it’s overall worse off for them.

It’s almost certain the devs will add another hull augment slot anyway, it’s just a matter of time.

Edited February 25, 2022 by LambSauce
Grammar

[wolverine848 13,097]

47 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

If they choose, let’s say, AP and EMP immunities, with no option to change, that still leaves them completely vulnerable to Burning, Cold, Stun and Jammer.

Right now they can change to whichever immunity they want based on the most problematic status effect they face. Take that away and, even with two immunities, it’s overall worse off for them.

It’s almost certain the devs will add another hull augment slot anyway, it’s just a matter of time.

Disagree.  There's ALWAYS a bunch of different turret augments out there in any battle.  Being able to defend against 2 of them the entire battle is worth a lot more than being able to switch to the ONE you think is most annoying at any given time.

Why do you think Spectrum modules are so valuable?

And that extra hull augment you predict will be for $ or TKs.  Good luck to F2P tankers.

[YANUKFIN 493]

4 hours ago, LambSauce said:

If they choose, let’s say, AP and EMP immunities, with no option to change, that still leaves them completely vulnerable to Burning, Cold, Stun and Jammer.

Right now they can change to whichever immunity they want based on the most problematic status effect they face. Take that away and, even with two immunities, it’s overall worse off for them.

It’s almost certain the devs will add another hull augment slot anyway, it’s just a matter of time.

Equipment changes for maxed out buyers (I have everything, try and kill my paladin if you can...lol) do not really bother them.

If you give a buyer the opportunity to equip 2 immunities, taken into account they mostly use paladin or that other legal hack, then you can kiss goodbye to EVER getting the better of them, unless you gang up with half your team to take them on.

TO needs a complete re-work. Barring that minor miracle ever happening, giving buyers a buff to their already maxed out garage is not healthy for the rest of us, especially at Endgame legend battles. 

Sorry, but on this one you are wrong in your assumptions. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

4 hours ago, LambSauce said:

If they choose, let’s say, AP and EMP immunities, with no option to change, that still leaves them completely vulnerable to Burning, Cold, Stun and Jammer.

And they'll be starting with these two immunities constantly. A part of doing consistently well in battle is getting many kills in addition to completing game mode objectives. How do you do that? You have to have the ability to survive for extended periods of time while also having burst damage and/or sustained damage. Meta drones allow you to achieve this but how well you achieve it depends on the map, how well your teammates can back you up with their equipment against the enemy team, and the enemy team's equipment. 

 

The two statuses in the game that kill longevity are AP and EMP. The huge thing keeping some players in check in battles is the fact that they cannot protect themselves against both. If they are immune to you reducing their damage output, their first layer of defense, their speed and disabling their repair repair kits temporarily, then they will not be immune to you disabling the effects of their damage reducers, and vice versa. This is the main argument against adding a second immunity slot. You won't be able to artificially reduce the lifespan of some players, which brings in room for Isida trains to come back comfortably. Where there is longevity, healing makes it worse. 

 

Sure, they won't be able to protect themselves from the other 4 statuses, but they themselves or their application methods are not potent/widespread enough to dethrone AP and EMP Immunity's effectiveness when looking to dominate with oppressive equipment. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by TheCongoSpider

[Frylock 1,617]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Sure, they won't be able to protect themselves from the other 4 statuses, but they themselves or their application methods are not potent/widespread enough to dethrone AP and EMP Immunity's effectiveness when looking to dominate with oppressive equipment. 

To be honest, I see Freezing and Jamming as larger threats. 

One of them disables drone abilities and Overdrives and the other disables damage enhancers and disables adrenaline included. 

To me, drones would be more valuable now a days since the developers decided to  make the supply stats based off of drone upgrades for a long while now.  So having Jammer exist and disable the abilities of the drones except of course hyperion and brutus. Hence why I can see jamming as a larger threat than AP. 

As for freezing status, it can compete with emp. Im usually a try hard or a sweat in the game; not going to deny that, but you would be surprised how freezing can overcome emp users. To me Between EMP and Freezing status effects, they are almost equal. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by MysticBlood