Playing the Objective in Game Modes is Not Worth it.

[ok_hand 95]

Look at this match on the blue team and I'll tell you what I see. 

Spoiler

3 of the top 5 players on our team didn't go to the point at all. Yet, they got a lot of points and stars accordingly.

 

Right now, the top 3 players on both teams get 3 stars plus 1 if they queued with "Quick Match", and double that if they have a Premium Pass (according to the Wiki). Due to the change in the game's economy whether it be reduced funds in matches, increased prices of garage items, or shift to containers being the primary source of income, crystals earned from matches are seldom worth it anymore; the exceptions being double funds in events and the Premium Pass.

 

Stars are more important than crystals. 

 

They're used to complete daily and weekly Missions, Battle and Elite Passes, and the Challenge Accepted (monthly?) event. The only downside to staying in your base is a negligible difference in crystals earned. Oh -- and not to mention you spend less supplies because you won't be dying as much as you would be if you were playing the objective. This is an issue that should be addressed.

 

The ridiculously fast time to kill/damage per shot doesn't help with this either; it turns players off of being aggressive. No, everyone equipping Defender is not the solution (though it is the best solution right now; 90% damage reduction is stupid). 

 

I don't believe changing the "stars earned per battle system" to the previous iteration (players on losing team get fewer stars) would be the solution either -- in my own experience, it doesn't feel worth the time spent in battle if you're on the losing team.

 

What are your thoughts/ideas of tackling this problem?

Edited December 8, 2024 by ok_hand
grammar

[Maf 32,300]

I go for the objective because it's fun, and I play Tanki to have fun, so I don't really think about whether it's worth it in terms of rewards earned 

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 1:43 PM, Maf said:

I go for the objective because it's fun, and I play Tanki to have fun, so I don't really think about whether it's worth it in terms of rewards earned 

We need more players like you

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 12/8/2024 at 8:43 PM, Maf said:

I go for the objective because it's fun, and I play Tanki to have fun, so I don't really think about whether it's worth it in terms of rewards earned 

you choosing to play the game the way its intended only because "its fun" for you and not because this is the only way to play without hurting your account big in long term is just trash game design.

at this point every MM match should be just TDM and rest of the modes coming back as festive anomalies at best. 

On 12/8/2024 at 8:39 PM, ok_hand said:

3 of the top 5 players on our team didn't go to the point at all.

unless u r as stacked as Obama going to the point/flag is a masochistic behavior. the entire MM scoring system and augments need to be COMPLETELY reworked to fix this problem because we are far too deep for a simple small balance update to fix it all

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/8/2024 at 10:57 PM, Hypersomnia said:

you choosing to play the game the way its intended only because "its fun" for you and not because this is the only way to play without hurting your account big in long term is just trash game design.

Yeah that's fair. I guess I can afford to not care about the "efficiency" of my gameplay since I've been in the game for so long, so I have no shortage of equipment or supplies and don't need to grind for anything.

I have to note though, people who camp at base and only go for kills are not entirely useless. For example, a smart camper in Parma SGE (like in the OP's screenshot) will target enemy players who are going for the objective and/or shooting at teammates on the objective. This will make it easier for teammates to capture the point.

Even if they aren't strategic about it and just go for whatever potential kills they can see, it still helps in the long run since the enemy players spend less time engaged in the battle.

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 2:14 PM, Maf said:

I have to note though, people who camp at base and only go for kills are not entirely useless. For example, a smart camper in Parma SGE (like in the OP's screenshot) will target enemy players who are going for the objective and/or shooting at teammates on the objective. This will make it easier for teammates to capture the point.

Even if they aren't strategic about it and just go for whatever potential kills they can see, it still helps in the long run since the enemy players spend less time engaged in the battle.

Right. I'm not saying they're useful nor useless; I'm saying --depending on how you look at it -- discouraging players for going to the objective when staying back and farming kills will give you comparable results is a problem.

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/9/2024 at 12:06 AM, ok_hand said:

Right. I'm not saying they're useful nor useless; I'm saying --depending on how you look at it -- discouraging players for going to the objective when staying back and farming kills will give you comparable results is a problem.

Wait, for whom is it a problem?

[Positive 1,136]

Hazel recently mentioned that he likes the freedom that players currently have in the matches. Allowing them to achieve good scores and complete missions without necessarily focusing on the objective. He values giving players the ability to approach battles in their own way. 
This vision is debatable, but also interesting to take note of. 

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 3:14 PM, Maf said:

Wait, for whom is it a problem?

It's a problem for players who go for objectives because there's no better incentive to go for them besides a minor increase in crystals (if they win) than staying back and farming kills.

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 3:22 PM, Positive said:

Hazel recently mentioned that he likes the freedom that players currently have in the matches. Allowing them to achieve good scores and complete missions without necessarily focusing on the objective. He values giving players the ability to approach battles in their own way. 
This vision is debatable, but also interesting to take note of. 

Yes, debatable. I do understand and support his vision, but I don't think it's currently in its most optimal state -- and I don't have an idea how to better it... I thought about adding points for touching objectives, but that wouldn't be a band-aid fix because it could be abused for example, grabbing flag in ASL then dropping it immediately or moving into Siege point then leaving it immediately... Then I thought about time you're physically holding an objective like being in the point in Siege, but even that could be abused for example, a player taking enemy flag then not capping it... 

[Hypersomnia 1,695]

On 12/8/2024 at 10:22 PM, Positive said:

Hazel recently mentioned that he likes the freedom that players currently have in the matches. Allowing them to achieve good scores and complete missions without necessarily focusing on the objective. He values giving players the ability to approach battles in their own way. 
This vision is debatable, but also interesting to take note of. 

uhhhh im a big buyer with a stacked account and even i can't afford to just play the game objective all the time without eventually going broke in a reasonable time frame. 

what this tells me is F2P players dont have "freedom" to choose what they want to do. they CAN ONLY camp or go bankrupt with supplies and deal with overpowered augments that oneshot them every 5 seconds. 

them nerfing mission rewards to 3 epic keys then to 1 epic key (oh wait it'll be on xmas event) is also not encouraging anyone to play offensively. 

Edited December 8, 2024 by Hypersomnia

[krokorok 838]

The one thing that comes to mind is to either raise the points for the main objectives like capturing flags or rugby ball delivery or adjust the point ratio between main objectives and destruction of enemy tank (basically if you do not raise points for main objectives, lower the amount of points for tank destruction in non TDM matches).

Another option is to create some reward system specifically oriented for battle objectives that isnt part of daily or special missions. Something like Phoenix, but with more levels and without the ridiculous overexaggerated requirements that do not motivate most regular players like:

Capture 250 flags: One regular Shot effect of your choice

Capture 500 flags: One animated paint of your choice available in containers

Capture 1000 flags: 1 augment from some selection of augments that are in legendary category and are still somewhat decent but not the stuff they are currently selling.

Basically like the rankups used to be when with each rankup you would get more crystals, but instead of crystal you are working your way through missions that give you first just regular reward that progress to something better each time until you reach some ridiculous achievement of 10 000 flags, and you get idk 100 UCs and 500tkns or something. Because I think even such reward would not break the economy, given how much they reduced rewards for basically everything from rank ups to missions to regular containers.

Edited December 9, 2024 by krokorok

[POWER-OF-ONE 163]

On 12/8/2024 at 6:39 PM, ok_hand said:

and not to mention you spend less supplies because you won't be dying as much as you would be if you were playing the objective

I camp because of the OP augments, no other reason.

Now let me tell you what I saw in that battle screen. I saw 3 players at the top with a laughable kd, so yeah, they did indeed die lots, which equates to useless campers imo.

On 12/8/2024 at 6:39 PM, ok_hand said:

What are your thoughts/ideas of tackling this problem?

Getting rid of augments and trashcans would be a good start, other than that, some players just like to camp and will not change how they play regardless what anyone says.

 

On 12/8/2024 at 6:57 PM, Hypersomnia said:

at this point every MM match should be just TDM and rest of the modes coming back as festive anomalies at best.

Unfortunately your words ring true enough.

 

On 12/8/2024 at 6:57 PM, Hypersomnia said:

the entire MM scoring system and augments need to be COMPLETELY reworked to fix this problem because we are far too deep for a simple small balance update to fix it all

Again I agree.

To big up the campers though, (I myself being one for a number of years) every team needs a good camper who is smart enough to see sneaky trashcans and the like and deal with them accordingly. Basically smash the crap out of them as often as possible, makes my day and gains me more fans/haters, so win, win really. 

On 12/8/2024 at 7:14 PM, Maf said:

Even if they aren't strategic

Which I try to be as often as possible.

 

On 12/8/2024 at 7:14 PM, Maf said:

it still helps in the long run since the enemy players spend less time engaged in the battle.

Agree.

 

On 12/8/2024 at 8:22 PM, Positive said:

He values giving players the ability to approach battles in their own way.

Which is only right.

The moment he takes that away is when players will really start complaining and they would be right in doing so.

On 12/8/2024 at 8:54 PM, Hypersomnia said:

them nerfing mission rewards to 3 epic keys then to 1 epic key (oh wait it'll be on xmas event) is also not encouraging anyone to play offensively.

Good point.

 

On 12/8/2024 at 9:18 PM, krokorok said:

Capture 250 flags: One regular Shot effect of your choice

Capture 500 flags: One animated paint of your choice available in containers

Capture 1000 flags: 1 augment from some selection of augments that are in legendary category and are still somewhat decent but not the stuff they are currently.

 LOL 250 flags for 1 shot effect.

 One animated paint for 500 flags.

 A decent augment (which means it will be useless) for 1000 flags.

Your idea is based on good reasoning, but your rewards are liberty taking. Seriously you couldn't give me that lot for free. I'd rather camp at the back of the map with my maccy dee than grind for that garbage.

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 4:40 PM, POWER-OF-ONE said:

I camp because of the OP augments, no other reason.

Now let me tell you what I saw in that battle screen. I saw 3 players at the top with a laughable kd, so yeah, they did indeed die lots, which equates to useless campers imo.

The reason why was because the enemy team were also focused primarily on getting kills

[krokorok 838]

On 12/8/2024 at 10:40 PM, POWER-OF-ONE said:

 

 LOL 250 flags for 1 shot effect.

 One animated paint for 500 flags.

 A decent augment (which means it will be useless) for 1000 flags.

Your idea is based on good reasoning, but your rewards are liberty taking. Seriously you couldn't give me that lot for free. I'd rather camp at the back of the map with my maccy dee than grind for that garbage.

To each their own. Your preferences might be different than those of others. Just like people choosing to not really care about achieving Phoenix, you are more than welcome to ignore these missions as well. These are meant to be a bit of motivation boosters to reward people doing main objectives.

Imo, there is no point to suggest missions like "hey gimme 500 UCs for capturing 300 flags", because giving the trends Tanki is showing in rewards, they would never give any massive reward for such missions. Expecting any groundbreaking rewards on lower levels just isnt realistic in the current circumstances. So my examples are simply what I think is reasonable to suggest and what I think Tanki would be willing to give. As I said these are examples, they can be adjusted if Tanki would find it reasonable. The rewards are suppose to be just okaish at start and get progressively better the more objectives you complete. My main point is to have  smaller rewards that are getting better with higher tiers reached instead of having one big reward that feels incredibly unreachable for majority of players just like phoenixes are.

Edited December 8, 2024 by krokorok

[ok_hand 95]

On 12/8/2024 at 5:00 PM, krokorok said:

To each their own. Your preferences might be different than those of others. Just like people choosing to not really care about achieving Phoenix, you are more than welcome to ignore these missions as well. These are meant to be a bit of motivation boosters to reward people doing main objectives.

I think your idea is an interesting one. We should be welcoming of ideas. 

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/9/2024 at 2:00 AM, krokorok said:

Imo, there is no point to suggest missions like "hey gimme 500 UCs for capturing 300 flags", because giving the trends Tanki is showing in rewards, they would never give any massive reward for such missions. Expecting any groundbreaking rewards on lower levels just isnt realistic in the current circumstances. So my examples are simply what I think is reasonable to suggest and what I think Tanki would be willing to give.

I think you're spot-on with the rewards. If we're talking about a new set of missions which don't have a time limit, get passively completed while you're playing, and simply add more rewards on top of everything else, then capturing 1000 flags for an augment seems very reasonable. Hell, it's almost too generous. 

[Cleric 1,385]

How many times for this topic to be put on the table and then get ignored afterward? I can't even count. It is such an obvious design flaw that no one bothers to fix it.

 

On 12/9/2024 at 4:22 AM, Positive said:

Hazel recently mentioned that he likes the freedom that players currently have in the matches. Allowing them to achieve good scores and complete missions without necessarily focusing on the objective. He values giving players the ability to approach battles in their own way. 
This vision is debatable, but also interesting to take note of. 

To me, that's just a glorified way to say we don't care nor gonna fix that.

[JustBlackWolf 875]

I always go for the objective.

You're complaining about a problem Opex himself refuses to fix because of the "power creep" excuse.

The ttk is like that because the whales need their dopamine when they try their fancy new toy augment, the game is already power crept to the limit as to where defender makes it bearable at most.

Making oneshots less common would lead to the whales crying that their crisis can't kill a heavy hull no more in one hit. And that would hurt the devs pockets.

Edited December 10, 2024 by JustBlackWolf

[POWER-OF-ONE 163]

On 12/9/2024 at 6:12 AM, Maf said:

then capturing 1000 flags for an augment seems very reasonable. Hell, it's almost too generous.

I don't know if you meant that or not, but lets say you did because that is something a mod would say.

1000 flags for an augment and how long do you think it would take you to reach that huge amount.

Sometimes you lot are just laughable to the point of being slightly away with the fairies. 

At times I despair at the naivety of some players, sad really.  

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/12/2024 at 3:17 AM, POWER-OF-ONE said:

1000 flags for an augment and how long do you think it would take you to reach that huge amount.

If ASL flags count, then let's say you cap 3 flags per day, so it will take about a year to complete if you're playing casually. Like a mini-trophy mission for normal players. If multiple such missions are ongoing at the same time (like trophies), then it seems reasonable to me.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

If you think our ask is high, Devs have set the standards to get an exclusive augment with 5 Million points, thats still not achievable by days, weeks or even months of grind but even further.

So goodluck arguing with that.

[Maf 32,300]

On 12/12/2024 at 10:09 AM, NikmanGT said:

If you think our ask is high, Devs have set the standards to get an exclusive augment with 5 Million points, thats still not achievable by days, weeks or even months of grind but even further.

So goodluck arguing with that.

Yeah, I'm a pretty active player, doing daily missions almost every day and sometimes playing a bit extra, yet I'm only at around 330k points on my most used turret and hull. I don't remember when those trophies were added, but I think it's been around a year. At this rate it's gonna take me 15 years to complete one set of trophies

I'd be pretty happy with a set of mini-trophies which give me a couple nice freebies per year on top of all the other existing rewards.

@POWER-OF-ONE On top of that, consider that we're getting ONE (1) common container as reward for every rank up, which is kind of a joke. So my opinion that the above proposed rewards align with Tanki's economy is party based on that.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 12/12/2024 at 11:59 AM, Maf said:

I'd be pretty happy with a set of mini-trophies which give me a couple nice freebies per year on top of all the other existing rewards

This tbh ^

But I highly doubt that will be considered since augments are available in Utras and behind paywall mini-games, funds and other events we have, so freebie for normal or even slight OP augments is a no-no.

However, I forward to seeing contracts that might accomplish the desired result (Planned by Opex in the near future, if anyone's wondering)

[Master_Scope 164]

 

On 12/12/2024 at 6:43 AM, NikmanGT said:

However, I forward to seeing contracts that might accomplish the desired result (Planned by Opex in the near future, if anyone's wondering)

Contracts have been planned for years now, the near future sounds like 2026