valid Protection against grenades

[Muscularity 160]

Technically, grenades are supplies, just like the mine supply. So why not adding protection against it, just like the ''Spider'' protection

[NikmanGT 4,362]

Valid

Much needed, considering there are already 3 types of grenades present in the game, and we have a bunch of em coming in the future.

[Maf 32,300]

It was an intentional game design decision to give grenades Chaos damage. I don't think there will ever be grenade protection, since it will result in the same problem that turrets have.

[Muscularity 160]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:50 PM, Maf said:

It was an intentional game design decision to give grenades Chaos damage. I don't think there will ever be grenade protection, since it will result in the same problem that turrets have.

But, for some reason, mine supply is an exception for that, and it is less useful than grenades

Edited January 11 by Pleasant

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/12/2025 at 12:40 AM, Pleasant said:

But, for some reason, mine supply is an exception for that, and it is less useful than grenades

So is Blaster augment, the damage dealt is actually dependent on whether the enemy has a protection module against your turret or not.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/11/2025 at 3:16 PM, NikmanGT said:

So is Blaster augment, the damage dealt is actually dependent on whether the enemy has a protection module against your turret or not.

Blaster dealt turret damage between 2018-mid 2022. It was changed to chaos damage in 2022. 

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/12/2025 at 12:54 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

Blaster dealt turret damage between 2018-mid 2022. It was changed to chaos damage in 2022. 

But then quoting chaos damage is not affected by modules should be incorrect (?)

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/11/2025 at 3:26 PM, NikmanGT said:

But then quoting chaos damage is not affected by modules should be incorrect (?)

Chaos damage as an official term didn't exist before mid 2022. 

 

Blaster drone between 2018 and mid-2022 dealt the damage of whatever turret you were using. This damage was enhanceable (Boosted Damage) and armour and turret modules would decrease the damage at this time. 

Crusader between 2020-mid 2022 had enhanceable damage but no module could reduce its damage, only armour (Defender/Crisis reduced it further than Brutus)

Wasp, Ares and Mammoth would be examples of chaos damage before the term was coined. Their damage was not enhanceable nor reduceable by armour or modules. The only thing that used to decrease Wasp's damage was Titan's dome but that was removed in 2021 if I'm remembering correctly. 

 

Chaos damage as it is now refers to damage that cannot be increased or reduced by external factors. It deals the same damage every time. Grenades deal chaos damage and Opex said in a Vlog that grenades won't have modules against them. 

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/11/2025 at 11:10 PM, Pleasant said:

But, for some reason, mine supply is an exception for that, and it is less useful than grenades

Well, that's a different discussion, but perhaps mines should deal chaos damage then? Compensated by other changes as well, of course.

[Nuclear 126]

Well, I really don't want to check the grenades too to figure out what protection should I use against it.

Not to mention, that we can change only once, therefore who changes later could get an advantage that would make match more unbalanced.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 1/11/2025 at 8:10 PM, Pleasant said:

But, for some reason, mine supply is an exception for that, and it is less useful than grenades

Yes, on the other hand the mine supply is much cheaper than a grenade.

[ok_hand 95]

grenades aren't difficult to dodge. we shouldn't be penalizing a skilled throw by letting tanks sit on top of them.

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/12/2025 at 1:07 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

Chaos damage as it is now refers to damage that cannot be increased or reduced by external factors. It deals the same damage every time

I think you misunderstood my intention. I was not negating any of that, ik chaos damage as it is.

 

What I mean is both blaster and grenades are sub-listed under Chaos damage, now we say this damage isn't affected by modules, but Blaster is an exception here, so why not grenades.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/12/2025 at 11:16 AM, NikmanGT said:

I think you misunderstood my intention. I was not negating any of that, ik chaos damage as it is.

 

 

What I mean is both blaster and grenades are sub-listed under Chaos damage, now we say this damage isn't affected by modules, but Blaster is an exception here, so why not grenades.

But Blaster is not an exception. It's not reduceable by modules. 

[Sharva 89]

On 1/12/2025 at 12:20 AM, Maf said:

It was an intentional game design decision to give grenades Chaos damage. I don't think there will ever be grenade protection, since it will result in the same problem that turrets have.

I actually like this idea  The main reason for it is that I don't think many players use the Mine protection in the game, especially the more experienced ones. I've not analysed it or anything though, it's just an assumption. But even if I were told to list all the protection modules in the descending order of their importance, the Mine protection would most probably be the last one in my list. I don't have much knowledge about the importance of protections, but I still like to express my opinion...

So the point is, I think if  Mine protection is not being used anyway, it could actually make sense to give it the ability to deal chaos damage, and remove its protection from the game outright.

Also, perhaps a separate protection to protect a tank from all the sources of chaos damage could be added (Grenades, Wasp OD, Mammoth OD, etc.). This protection would not be obtainable by purchasing it with real money though, players would be able to obtain it by actually playing the game and grinding for it, just like Phoenix augments, so as to prevent the game from going another step ahead on the P2W path.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere though. After all, players like you, @NikmanGT, etc. have much deeper understanding of all the aspects of the game than I do.

Edited January 12 by Sharva

[NikmanGT 4,362]

On 1/12/2025 at 9:10 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

But Blaster is not an exception. It's not reduceable by modules. 

It is, that's what I'm saying since the beginning, to Maf and now to you, base damage when you are attached to the enemy is 3k but when the certain enemy takes prot against you (lets say 50% to be perfect at calculation), the blaster damage is reduced to 1.5k then and there, no matter how close and far you might be.

All I play these days is Viking Blaster that's why I'm observing this since a while ago.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 1/12/2025 at 1:26 PM, NikmanGT said:

It is, that's what I'm saying since the beginning, to Maf and now to you, base damage when you are attached to the enemy is 3k but when the certain enemy takes prot against you (lets say 50% to be perfect at calculation), the blaster damage is reduced to 1.5k then and there, no matter how close and far you might be.

All I play these days is Viking Blaster that's why I'm observing this since a while ago.

Blaster has splash damage parameters. It deals 3,000 damage between 0-3m.  The blast radius starts at the epicentre of the hull (usually where the turret mount is) so to get full damage you'd usually have to be touching the enemy tank on the server during the exact moment of explosion. It very quickly goes down to 50% damage between 3-4m, and extends towards 15m. A Blaster user will most often be doing 50% damage of the total damage. 

[Maf 32,300]

On 1/12/2025 at 7:50 PM, Sharva said:

Also, perhaps a separate protection to protect a tank from all the sources of chaos damage could be added (Grenades, Wasp OD, Mammoth OD, etc.). This protection would not be obtainable by purchasing it with real money though, players would be able to obtain it by actually playing the game and grinding for it, just like Phoenix augments, so as to prevent the game from going another step ahead on the P2W path.

No, that would defeat the whole point of Chaos damage. It was intentionally added as a way to create sources of damage that are unaffected by the complex interactions of drones, supplies and modules. Makes them much easier to balance.

[Sharva 89]

On 1/13/2025 at 12:17 AM, Maf said:

No, that would defeat the whole point of Chaos damage. It was intentionally added as a way to create sources of damage that are unaffected by the complex interactions of drones, supplies and modules. Makes them much easier to balance.

I see... And now after thinking about it even more, I realised that there's no actual need for this protection against chaos damage either. None of the sources of chaos damage are so overpowered that there would be a need to bring a protection module against all the sources of chaos damage into the game. And even if some of them get either broken or underwhelming over time (which is unlikely, I think), they can be balanced individually.