More than likely, they do keep digging the hole deeper and deeper.

So the next big question is, do the modules start out with a minimum protection level or do they start at zero. Because right now it's a fifteen step system to max out a paint's protection. Will the new system still have the same 15 step system or will it take 50 steps like hulls and turrets.If it's a fifty step system, it sounds like a scam to make more money off of us. I say this because of the ridiculously long wait times for an upgrade to take place. I can understand 24 hours to wait but 3 or 4 or even 5 days is just, plain as the nose on your face, a means to tempt someone to spend even more money to speed it up. I mean figure it out, it can take up to 6 months or more to fully mu a hull or turret if you don't use speed ups because most people can't just sit at their computer 24 hours a day waiting for a mu to complete. So while relatively quick at the beginning, by the end of the process and a few missed days here and there six months have gone by. Right now it takes roughly 3 months to do a paint using no speed ups. That in my book is just a scheme to try and make people to spend more money on speed ups to get wait times down to a reasonable level. If your really going to modify the system to make it more user friendly for the players then get rid of the ridiculous wait time on mu's. I understand that the game needs to be supported financially, and as for myself I do support it (just take a peak at my garage), But I still remember the days when over 100,000 people used to be playing the game during peak times, now the average is more like 50 to 60 thousand, sometimes jumping up to 80,000. I think the developers need to really rethink what they are doing. More and more people are quitting the game because it is getting more and more difficult to be successful. To have a decent garage means spending ridiculous amounts of money. I'm nearly at that point myself, I think this next adjustment to the system will be the decision point for me to continue or quit. If it's ridiculously expensive and ridiculously drawn out to get any benefits, then I'm sorry to say I'm gone after having enjoyed this game for almost 4 years.

That's the big question isn't it. How it will effect existing paints, especially those that protect against 4 turrets? Also will it give more options as to how protection is divided up with existing paints, and/or added capabilities? And lastly the last big question - How much is it going to cost?

I agree. There are many many questions yet to be asked and answered as to how this update will work. Such as: How does it effect existing paints, especially those that protect against 4 types of weapons? Will we be able to adjust the parameters of the paints we already have? How will it effect paints that are fully upgraded? Does the module add abilities to existing paints since it is an add on? Yes many many questions.

On the battlefield an icon will hover over your enemy's tank and it will show the percentage of protection against you. If you see no icon then they have no protection against you.

From what I saw in the video, if they have protection against your weapon, they will have an icon floating over their tank stating how much protection they have against you. Also in the battle window next to every player it will show which protections they have. I am curious how the update will work with existing paints that you already have. That was the confusing part to me.

Comparing Vulcan and Twins is like comparing apples and oranges. Really there is no comparison. 2 totally different types of weapons Twins is a short to mid-range weapon that has immediate fire, Continuous firing with no heat penalty like Vulcan (I don't know how many times I see someone with Twins just keep their thumb on the space bar, running around on continuous fire mode) and it only takes a 1 point nerf going from close range to max range (Look at the wika, M4 Twins only drops 1 point, all the other levels a 2 to 3 point drop, not an 80 percent drop). Granted Vulcan has higher close in damage power but the turret moves like it is stuck in mud when firing thus allowing people to just do death spirals around them. Twins have a very fast transverse thus able to keep on target and protect themselves. So with M4 Vulcan with a 75% drop in power you go from 60 point damage per second at short range down to 15 points at long range. With M4 Twins you go from 21 down to 20 points with no heat penalty and that's not per second. Because of rate of fire a twins may put out 40 to 60 points of damage per second, and that's max range. Just keep you thumb on the bar Baby!!! Now let's compare a Rail to them. In the 6 seconds time a M4 Vulcan can deal out 90 points max long range damage and a M4 Twins 240 points max (figuring 40 points per second)(it should also be noted that that Vulcan is sitting out in the open that whole 6 seconds), a M4 Rail can deal out 398 points max in that same 6 seconds while popping in and out of cover, and not just to 1 opponent but to 2 if they line up.( It should be noted that that is LONG range damage.) You see an M4 Rail has 100% penetrating power too. So the poor guy hiding behind the main target gets the same damage too. That's why you see Rails getting so many double kills. Now let's compare when they activate double power. A Rail goes up to 796 points of max damage per target (up to 2 if they line up). How does that compare to Vulcan's paltry 90 or even 180 max damage with double damage in a 6 second period? So please don't tell me Vulcan's positives out weigh it's negatives. It's an OK weapon that is fun to use and can hold it's own if used in a smart way. The only way they are alike is at long range. They're both are easy to kill. And that is my whole point. Vulcan is supposed to be a long range weapon and it has to sit there forever, in the open, to kill anything. At least Twins on a fast hull can move around, and with it's impact power, cause people to miss. Also with immediate firing it's a very good bush-wacker weapon ( Vulcan has the long spin up and spin down times). At long range Vulcan's Impact power has very little effect on aim (Close up, yes it can knock people around). Plus the distance is long enough that people can easily adjust their aim to compensate for movement. One last thing. Just like with Twins, a Vulcan's fire can be blocked by teammates and other hulls (even when you are waiting for a kill to disappear). So the point is, you are comparing Vulcans and Twins, oh I mean apples and oranges. Yes Vulcan is overall a better weapon than Twins. That"s why I use Vulcan instead of Twins. And it's more fun to use to boot. But they aren't the same type of weapon. If you are going to do comparisons, compare it to Rail, Shaft or Smokey. They have more similarities than Twins/Vulcan.

I think I finally figured it out . When they nerfed Vulcan they kept the high impact as an offset. Because I'll tell you what, even with a few MU's it still has problems taking out M2 or higher equipment. That reduction down to 25% distance damage really pulled it's teeth. Rail, Shaft, and even Smokey are much more deadly than it is and I've found that they kick you around a lot more violently than a Vulcan does. I've been playing with it for a solid 5 hours the last 2 days and it can barely hold it's own with equivalent or higher ranks. Still fun to play with because I like a challenge, but it's a ho-hum weapon as far as deadliness is concerned. Yes it can push people around, but I would worry more about Shafts, Rails and Smokies.

I don't think the games are set ups and hopefully by posting this I can get more people to vote these people. I mean this problem is getting worse in the game. These individuals follow you from game to game too. I've mentioned it to other players and they've had the same thing happen to them or seen it happening to other people. So I'm not the only person to have had this happen too. It's more than the people who are just being trolls. They are specifically going after people and it seems to be a problem that is spreading. It is not just a few isolated cases any more. This is what has been said to me when I've questioned them on why they were harassing me - "I want to cause you pain" or "people like you are ruining the game so I'm going to ruin it for you".(This was because I had used a supply while next to him, he was on my team) I'm tired of self righteous people who think it's OK to bully others. I've even switched sides so that I could defend myself in the game, but they switch sides too so that they can keep bullying me or others. They even go after people who try to help out.

The thing that I've been noticing lately that is really getting bad is the number of bullies that are in the game right now. These are the guy's that, for whatever reason, take a disliking to you. They push you around and basically try to force you from the game. You can be playing FULLY in the rules, but if you do something that they disagree with they turn vigilante. I'm not going to get into an argument over drugging, stealing kills, or taking your favorite camping spot, because the point is if a person is PLAYING BY THE RULES they should not be harassed or bullied, and that players need to be more active in voting and reporting these guys.

I just got my M3 Vulcan did some mu's and so far I've not been overly impressed. Everyone keeps saying just use firebird protection paint, and that does work until every Shaft and Rail opens up on you. You see, what the complainers of Vulcan always fail to point out, when they complain about Vulcan's continuous fire, is that if you use the paints that make that possible, then you are pretty much completely naked to almost every other weapon out there because most anti-firebird paints really don't provide good protection from the most powerful long range weapons out there. So almost all of Vulcan's advantages are negated. Especially in the higher ranks where you begin seeing some good anti-vulcan paints. Where Vulcan actually does shine though is in team support. It is a very disruptive weapon to the other team when used properly. When engaging multiple targets, it keeps the other guys from focusing all their fire on just one guy, because a Vulcan keeps them ducking for cover. They get that opportunity because a Vulcan can hardly ever kill anything quickly. So, while it is a weapon that I like to use because of the irritation factor it provides to other players, it really isn't the beast so many anti-vulcan complainers try to make it out to be.

I guess your experience is quite different than mine. I don't run across them much yet, and I've been playing quite awhile.

You hit the nail on the head. Vulcan takes a lot of skill to be used effectively. Anyone can rack up kills using a heavy hull and most turrets. But let a skilled player enter the game and pretty soon those guys leave because they can't take being taken out over and over again in by a guy in a lighter hull. I really love going after the guys who camp out with their Vulcan/Mammoth combo with my Vulcan/Hunter combo and show them how a Vulcan should be used. For that matter I have used Smokey, Rail and Isada to do the same thing. It never fails, in most cases that guy will leave before the game is over. So now I will make this argument again to those always whining about Vulcans... If Vulcan is such an overpowering beast why don't you see more of them. I think the only turret used less, if it isn't Vulcan, is maybe freeze. I see every other turret a lot more in battles than I do Vulcan.

I'm using a fully MU'd M2 Vulcan on a Viking or Hunter and occasionally Titan hulls. I prefer the Viking and Hunter hulls because I like moving around the battlefield instead of camping. The fully MU'd Vulcan is supposedly the equivalent of a plain M3, and I feel it is a little under powered when in a fight with all Marshall and above ranked players. In that situation it just can't take people out quickly enough to survive for long (with or w/o drugs) in a fight where all of them are using M3/M4 equipment. I can't speak, of course, about an upgraded M3 Vulcan since I don't have one yet. Now in a fight with mixed ranks and a lot of light hulls it does OK.

So I think we've found some agreement. Nerf the impact, and I think the compensation by increasing long range power would would be the best compromise to compensate the lowering of its impact power. If you try to fine tune it too much then you start over thinking the problem and try to get too fancy in your solution. So to reiterate areas of possible agreement - Lower the impact, to give smaller hulls a better chance. Then increase slightly long range damage to compensate and help with survive-ability from weapons whose aim it can no longer knock off with it's lower impact power. I think this would make for a nice compromise. Just remember too, touching on your point of continuous damage. Isada, Freeze and Firebird deal continuous damage too. Especially Firebird, with it's after-burn feature. Talk about an over-powered weapon at M4, that is definitely one. Also I know I drive even big hull drivers nuts with my Isada because of it's self heal feature. I love rolling up to a mammoth, with it's giant gun, in my little hornet and sucking the life out of it as it pumps shot after shot into me and I still come away with full health. Then Freeze, I hate it when they sneak up from behind and you can do nothing to get at them because you're frozen watching your hit points going away. So if they were ever to do what we're talking about here, just view Vulcan as a long range firebird without the after burn. With the lower impact power it would give people a chance to get away just like we all do now with Isada, Firebird and Freeze. I would still have to think about the heat-up faster compensated by quicker spin-up and spin-down times change. I can see it might be OK if not taken too far. Quicker spin-up and spin-down times definitely would make it a much better pop-out, fire, then hide weapon. But I think If your going to have quicker heat-up times you would have to also compensate with quicker cool down times to encourage a person to stop firing too, thus avoiding self inflicted damage. As you can see, like I mentioned earlier, once you start changing one parameter then you open up a whole can of worms and it turns into a mess. So I say just keep it simple, lower impact, increase long distance damage. That in itself would solve most of the problems that people complain about on both sides of the the issue.

That is the one point that I will concede to you, but let's make sure what we're talking about when we talk about impact power. I will be basically talking about fully MU'd M3's for simplicity. Take for example Shaft. It has the most powerful impact of the game at 800 (one shot). Talk about flipping out light hulls. I don't know how many times I've been completely blown off the map if not out-rightly destroyed by one of these over-powered beasties. Or how about Rails - impact 700(one shot). Once again for a light hull, if you survive the initial hit....nightmare city in the way it rocks you. And what about your favorite and mine... Smoky... Yes it has much less impact force (370) than Vulcan's(580) but I know that you have such a good kill record because you are constantly knocking people's aim off with each hit, and believe me that's the ability which makes Smoky, I believe the most dangerous weapon in Tanki. But that is with one hit, and that is where Vulcan is so much different from any other weapon in Tanki. So let's get down to the main reason everyone hates Vulcan. It's because, when firing, Vulcan's impact is continuous over a long period that drives people nuts. Not just with one hit one impact effect like the others I mentioned, but it does go on and on. So I grant you that point on it's continuous impact force, and I would even agree that it might be a good idea to nerf it's impact force. PROVIDED (notice the all capitals for emphasis) that with that nerf the terrible nerf on long distance damage is removed to a small degree. Say going from 25% damage long range to 30 or 35%. Because that is where Vulcan's get nailed the most. When they expose themselves for long periods of time to have a chance at a long range kill. They are easily taken out by long distance fire from Rails and Shafts, which have no such long distance nerfs on their long range damage. Also shorter range weapons all open fire too. Vulcan's are horrible gang up magnets. Everyone tries to take them out. Lastly, I know you know, only 3 weapons don't knock light hulls around. Isada, freeze and firebird. I don't know how many times I've crashed or been rolled because of hit's by the others. So Vulcan isn't the only one, just the most irritating. Also Shafts and Rails even knock Mammoths around. I don't know how many times I've beaten them by doing just that to them.

Lord_of_the_Snipers, If you add up my my M3 usage, I've used my other top M3's 3 times as much as my Vulcan, and my Rail most of all. True I have used my Vulcan quite a lot in the past when I fully upgraded my M2 to M3 power. But as I said in my post I rarely use it now because I have found that the upper Ranks stand up to it quite well and it has become easy to kill, So now my default gun is Smoky followed by Rail and Isada. I only pull the Vulcan out now when facing a lot of light hulls, which yes, a Vulcan can easily kill. Going up against Heavies I use Smoky, Rail or Isada depending on the map, even against Vulcans (when I can find them).... LOL .... Check out my Smoky usage . That has been in the last month. Pretty soon my Vulcan will be rated #4 in usage because I've hardly used it in the last 3 months. Yes I loved using Vulcan and still do, but I'm going to use the weapon that gets me wins, and right now Vulcan ain't it. It's a middle of the pack weapon right now (Which I know because it is in my inventory and I use it). Maybe it'll be better when I finally get to official M3 level and can fully upgrade it. But like I said I'm routinely killing M3/4's right now with my other weapons. So yes, I feel it is fine the way it stands.....hmmmmm...... well..... it might be slightly , and I do mean SLIGHTLY, under-powered right now due to it's weaknesses. But that's just the the little boy in me that always wishes his gun had just that little bit more power. :) Also after looking at your stats remind me that should we be in the same battle I want to be on your side. ;)

I can see not much has changed on this forum. Whine and cry about Vulcan. While true it is a powerful weapon (top 3 or 4), the same can be said about any weapon in the game if used properly. Being at the wrong end of a charge of 2 or 3 Isada's mutually supporting each other is a nightmare. Or how about 2 or 3 Shafts killing everything in sight. Or facing a bunch of Rails. The list can go on and on and on. When, and I mean when, I face M3/M4 Vulcans I routinely take them out with my Smoky or Rail. Yeah if you stand out in the open they'll eat you alive, but if you fight smart..... well they're dead. You guys make it sound like Vulcan's are everywhere, but I rarely see them, and I play a lot. You need a paint to protect yourself. Prodigi ain't going to do nothing for you. I like to use Blacksmith because it gives you protection against the three weapons I worry about most, Rail, Shaft, and Vulcan (when one shows up). But most of the time I use Prodigi or whatever paint I have that will best suit the adversaries I face. I use my Vulcan M3, but rarely right now because it is too easily killed. The way it is right now, it's a weapon used to keep the other team's head down while your team attacks. Yeah, if you get the crazy who likes to run up the middle, you get the easy kill, but against skilled drivers it's about even. When that happens, then you better be skilled with your Vulcan or your dead. So whine on McDuff and let loose the dogs of war. By the way I've noticed that the ones who complain the most usaully don't have a Vulcan in their inventory. My order of the most powerful guns in tanki -1. Smoky (decent rate of fire, good damage, big a$$ impact, and decent range)(weakness - must shoot and scoot to be effective) 2. Rail (Huge damage, great for sniping, giant impact and penetration ( I love double kills) great range)( weakness - slow recharge, usually dead if you miss) 3. Tie with Shaft and Vulcan (Shaft - great sniper, great range, most powerful damage in the game per shot, huge impact, decent rate of fire in arcade mode)(weakness - very slow recharge, slower than smoky in arcade mode, vulnerable when sniping) (Vulcan - awesome rate of fire, decent range, good but continuous impact when firing ) ( weakness - overheat self damage, slow spin up and slow down, must expose self for long periods to make a kill, slow turning turret while firing, gyro stabilizer while driving and firing) I know there will be disagreement, but that's how I rate the top 4.

You could say the same thing about Rails or Shafts. I've been in fights were 3 or more set up a killing zone and every time you respawn you are instantly killed.(Quoted from my previous post)..........Plus Dictators are wimpy hulls, decent armour but slow and big targets. Pretty much anyone can take out a Dictator.

You could say the same thing about Rails or Shafts. I've been in fights were 3 or more set up a killing zone and every time you respawn you are instantly killed. Another thing I've noticed too is that when a team or individual is having a good time pounding opponents that they do have a tendency to run away and leave when I show up with my Vulcan and even the odds out. One last thing, I have a question.... Have any of you noticed a new ghost hack out there where tanks are like ghosts and are able to grab flags but your fire goes right through them causing no damage. I've been seeing it from time to time. If you've seen it please record it and report it. I really hate that cheat.

Just 1 point to make that everyone keeps ignoring. Vulcans have already been severely nerfed to just 25‰ on their long range damage. It takes a long time to take someone out in long range battles. During that whole time you are a big target for everyone. Rails and Shafts have no such nerf. I've been one shotted many times by them even with a m2 hunter and double armor supply in effect. That also doesn't take into account the nerf to spin up and spin down. Or the nerf to turret traverse. Sorry guys, all I've have to say is that, yes, Vulcan is a powerful turret, but it does have many faults that can be taken advantage of. I would also like to point out that I have been fighting in high rank matches, and I just don't see the overwhelming dominance of Vulcan that you keep talking about. When I've seen other Vulcans in the match it has seemed to me that they've been just as vulnerable as anyone else. In fact more so, because everyone seems to gang up on them. Though I will concede, if a Vulcan/Mammoth got together with an Isida, that would be a nightmare to fight. But you can say the same thing about Shaft/Mammoth and Isida combo. I fight with it because it suits my style and I am keenly aware of its weaknesses. Which I've learned to compensate for. Lastly for those that have pointed out that that my Vulcan is just an m2 Vulcan so I cannot be aware of the overpowering power of a m3 Vulcan..... My Vulcan m2 has been fully micro upgraded to m3 power and punch.

There are actually 2 advantages Vulcan notably has over other turrets. 1. The ability to continue firing till you die. Now on the surface this doesn't seem to be an advantage. But in certain situations it can be huge. Such as in stopping a number of players rushing in to grab the flag by overwhelming the defenders. Or taking out a pain in the but Shaft / Mammoth that's terrorizing your team. Or taking the guy with you who is killing you. That's an advantage hard to equal by other turrets. 2. The psychological advantage. People are either afraid or just get pissed off by Vulcans. It throws them off their game. So they play worse. Thus giving your team openings to take advantage of. I find that when I show up with my Vulcan, a team that was getting slaughtered suddenly is able to fight back. Teams that couldn't grab a flag are able to. All because a Vulcan threw people off their game. They concentrate on me because I have a tendency to irritate them. LOL! Thus opening up opportunities for my team. So those are 2 big advantages Vulcans have, and probably 2 reasons why so many want it nerfed even further. Vulcan is a new turret that has upset the old ways of fighting in the game. The ways that used to work have changed, and one thing I've learned is most people don't like change or after having been dominant so long having that dominance challenged. So if we want total balance in the game why don't we just have each weapon do exactly the same amount of damage and have the same range. Or better yet why don't we just go to 1 weapon and 1 hull then we absolutely know everything is balanced.

The interviews you point people to are chosen by the interviewer and after reading the article I have a feeling his views my be just a bit slanted. When you go look at the on going forum dealing with game balance you'll find that Vulcan has a much lower percentage of complainers than the article you pointed out. Yes in the hands of a good Vulcan driver it is a wicked weapon, but I think you can say the same thing about almost any other weapon. I also see that, yes, you see more Vulcans in higher ranked battles, but they are still in a huge minority. If they are so over powered you would see many more. Is it one of the more powerful weapons in the game? It ranks up there. But many say the same about the weapons they have most trouble with. It may be Rail, Shaft, Twins, or Firebird. They all get complained about. A lot depends on which maps are being played, level of equipment, paints used, and of course the skills of the players. Plus which weapon do you know of, other than Vulcan, which is nerfed down to 25% damage after 50 meters. I think they've done as best as they can balancing things. Like I've pointed out in this post and others, any weapon can seem like it is the most powerful weapon in the game if you don't know how to deal with it or have the wrong equipment. Plus add to that micro upgrades, where you think you are going up against, let's say, a m2 Vulcan and it's really as powerful as an m3 because of micro upgrades. Of course you are going to say it's way overpowering and needs to be nerfed, but that is because it's a stealthed m3. There are things like that with every weapon. Then throw on top of that kit tanks were you can upgrade equipment up to 2 or 3 ranks early. How is that fair to people of the same rank? So its not the weapons that are unbalanced, it's the rules of the game that allow it to be unbalanced. If you really want to balance the game, do away with repair kits. That will do more to balance things out than anything else you could do. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing that repair icon start flashing when you knew that you had the other guy.

Live Long and Prosper........Well at least until we meet. LOL

You might also want to look into a paint to protect from Vulcan too. Such as maxing out Blacksmith, Rhino, Hive, Raccon or Africa. Another option of course is Graffiti which is already maxed out for Vulcan. Your choice, of course, depends on what compromises your willing to make or what types of other turrets you consistantly run into. The other day I ran into a Ricco with Graffiti and he flat tore me up, Had to switch to my Rail to have a chace against him. Then it was more even. Keep the faith Lord-of-the-Snipers and be flexable. As for me I look forward to when I rank up a bit more and face Blastoy to prove my points. I like taking out campers. :ph34r: