Let's Discuss Isida!

[kydapoot 570]

I definitely agree! At least before I got Shaft Healing Emitters, Isida Adrenaline was my go-to in team battles, even when Vampire Nanbots was an option.

[Dopamine 2,161]

I find it kind of ironic that with the latest update, the only way to get 9999GS with Isida is to equip vampire nanobots - the augment with which you cannot heal your allies.

@Opex-Rah, please do not forget about the core identity and purpose of each turret.

[Gabe2607 215]

On 1/16/2023 at 6:06 PM, frederik123456 said:

 

@Opex-Rah, please do not forget about the core identity and purpose of each turret.

What is the purpose of isida, if not healing?

[Dopamine 2,161]

On 12/15/2023 at 2:03 AM, Gabe2607 said:

What is the purpose of isida, if not healing?

Yes, healing, you are right

[Tekken 374]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:05 AM, frederik123456 said:

Yes, healing, you are right

Its healing is now shadowed by shaft healing which is superior and even thunder healing is better. Isida should have long range augment for healing purposes only. Like phoenix isida have. 

[Gabe2607 215]

On 12/15/2023 at 3:05 AM, frederik123456 said:

Yes, healing, you are right

So, any idea why healing Juggernaut is penalized?

[Master120 19]

@Gabe2607 i'm Magnum main, but i'll be honest with you, in my opinion Isida is really weak after they removed the self healing, it's heal is also too weak compared to nano-bots and i think it should be getting a buff or self healing added back to it, the problem with healing in Juggernaut not only Isidas but also Shaft and Thunder healing augments, is that Juggernaut is already damn hard to kill without OD and it deals a lot of damage, they literally kill some player and when they're low on health they retreat and get healed or they simply fight while being healed.

So in my opinion the problem is not Isida nor Shaft or Thunder healing, its the Juggernaut that is too OP and also it's not fair when one of the teams have healing and the other don't in Jugernaut mode, not only they get healed but also the Juggernaut OD heals itself making it even worse.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Master120

[Gabe2607 215]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:36 PM, Master120 said:

@Gabe2607 i'm Magnum main, but i'll be honest with you, in my opinion Isida is really weak after they removed the self healing, it's heal is also too weak compared to nano-bots and i think it should be getting a buff or self healing added back to it, the problem with healing in Juggernaut not only Isidas but also Shaft and Thunder healing augments, is that Juggernaut is already damn hard to kill without OD and it deals a lot of damage, they literally kill some player and when they're low on health they retreat and get healed or they simply fight while being healed.

So in my opinion the problem is not Isida nor Shaft or Thunder healing, its the Juggernaut that is too OP and also it's not fair when one of the teams have healing and the other don't in Jugernaut mode, not only they get healed but also the Juggernaut OD heals itself making it even worse.

Two different matters.

1) I was asking why Isida should not get the same points when healing Jug. I am pretty sure Hazel meant "because you suppose to attack, not defend". And in that case I am wondering why everybody else (magnum, gauss, striker, shaft, rail, etc.) can camp and make a bunch of points. Beside that, it does not make sense for a non-vampire isida to attack, as everybody is pressing 1 for health.

2) I do not agree that Jug is too strong. With all the latest equipment (flying hulls), augments (triple armor) and drones (infinite supplies), and the self damage of the jug, I have been seeing many times lone buyers killing full-health jugs.

[Master120 19]

@Gabe2607 1) i agree with you that no one complains about turrets not attacking less Shaft and Magnum because those were made to be a Support(not counting the broken Augments though) i guess Juggernaut shouldn't be healed by other tbh.

2) Take in consideration that there's players that spawn as Juggernaut and they keep going to the enemy base and get targeted by everyone or simply don't do anything, yes broken augments and drones can definitely take out a Juggernaut easily but those who doesn't have it struggle to kill Juggernaut without using ODs it would be way more fair if Juggernauts didn't get healed by others imo.

[AzaborBR 128]

Isida needs a buff in the points received for healing allies, what's the advantage of having this turret now?

Look at this, I spent almost 6 minutes healing JUG and others on the team, while another player with a healing shaft was also healing JUG with me.

The difference in points between us is Huge, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE of doing this?

Originally Isida, which was designed to HEAL allies, heals less or the same as a SHAFT, which was designed to shoot from long distances, and worst of all, Shaft gets many more points per heal than Isida itself?!

No matter how much these turrets besides Isida can heal, they should never get more points than Isida per heal... That's why no one uses protection against Isida, an extremely forgotten and unfairly treated turret.

 

NERF Shaft Augments - Buff Isid

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 12/22/2024 at 6:30 PM, AzaborBR said:

The difference in points between us is Huge, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE of doing this?

In that screenshot, you're using Shock Nanobot Injection which decreases healing by 50%. If you actually want to be focusing on healing with Isida, you would be using Support Nanobots or Sustainable Nanobots if you had it. As you're using Shock Nanobot Injection, I presume you're attaching your beam to full HP or near full HP allies to continuously give them the damage boost. Having your beam on a full HP target won't give you points and I'd like to believe you already know that. 

 

You don't have a video but in a map like Berlin it would seem fairly obvious that at random, the Healing Emitters user may have shot at another injured non-Juggernaut ally which would give a boost to his score in comparison to yours. Solely healing the Juggernaut is unprofitable and it is intended that way. 

 

On 12/22/2024 at 6:30 PM, AzaborBR said:

and worst of all, Shaft gets many more points per heal than Isida itself?!

Isida, Shaft and Thunder use the same scoring system for healing. 1-13 points depending on the % of maximum HP of the target healed. What differs between them is how their healing is applied. The distinct difference is that Thunder and Shaft's healing augments have much more range than an Isida, with Shaft being the most comfortable and Thunder having issues with the auto-aim. 

 

On 12/22/2024 at 6:30 PM, AzaborBR said:

NERF Healing Emitters - Buff Isida

I agree, but the way you relay your experiences and complaints in battle is often confusing if not misleading. 

[Maf 32,300]

First of all, as CongoSpider said, you're not meant to get good scores from healing Juggernaut. It's discouraged in order to prevent TJR games turning into stalemates, where the Juggernauts are constantly being healed and it's almost impossible to deal damage fast enough. You can still focus on healing Juggernaut if winning the game is essential to you, but be prepared to sacrifice your score and reward in that case.

Second, let's not forget that Support Nanobots is an Epic tier augment, while Healing Emitters is Legendary, so it's intentionally designed to be stronger than Epic tier augments. Simple as that.

[AzaborBR 128]

Even that difference, if you will charge an alie and will not attack with isid, 18 points? 2 Minutes 18 points... In the end if you keep that you'll have 100 points by 14 minutes. So fair... Balanced...

[AzaborBR 128]

This is ridiculous, this augment for shaft is unbalanced in points.

I gave 1 million assists, killed 2x more than shaft and captured all the points and came in second, while the shaft that didn't even capture all the points, just kept healing from long distance came in 1st.

Very wrong. It seams game needs some general adjustment in points.

 

[Dumbledore6969 243]

On 12/22/2024 at 11:30 PM, AzaborBR said:

Isida needs a buff in the points received for healing allies, what's the advantage of having this turret now?

Look at this, I spent almost 6 minutes healing JUG and others on the team, while another player with a healing shaft was also healing JUG with me.

The difference in points between us is Huge, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE of doing this?

Originally Isida, which was designed to HEAL allies, heals less or the same as a SHAFT, which was designed to shoot from long distances, and worst of all, Shaft gets many more points per heal than Isida itself?!

No matter how much these turrets besides Isida can heal, they should never get more points than Isida per heal... That's why no one uses protection against Isida, an extremely forgotten and unfairly treated turret.

 

NERF Shaft Augments - Buff Isid

Topic merge

[Gabe2607 215]

Isida was not bothering anyone. In those disgusting MM battles, none cared about poor isidas, as all kids were pressing 1 anyway. 

When isidas helped jugs, they were not making many points, ending up at the end of the table. But all buyers protested because it was just a little harder to kill a jug. So the underdeveloper made jugs way weaker then buyers.

But in Pro Battles, were skills mattered, isidas were shining in glory.

Not anymore. Their power has been completely unplugged.

Isidas will be seen strolling around energyless and sad.

RIP, dear isidas  (2009-2025)

[Potdindy 866]

I would be interested if any of the vets" like maf or congospider could plop by and give us their thoughts on the isida changes along with potential reasons for the changes from devs. I dont understand it enough to comment but it does seem strange to nerf a turret that already struggles to gain points healing

Edited May 22 by Potdindy

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 5/21/2025 at 8:43 PM, Potdindy said:

I would be interested if any of the vets" like maf or congospider could plop by and give us their thoughts on the isida changes along with potential reasons for the changes from devs. I dont understand it enough to comment but it does seem strange to nerf a turret that already struggles to gain points healing

It's the most raw rework I've ever seen. It doesn't look like they even tried to make it make sense on the first attempt. Support Nanobots' healing output being nuked could mean they want healing as a whole to be less easily accessible and therefore have less sway over the outcome of battles at random. Score for healing was reduced which nerfs Isida as well as Healing Emitters and Nanotech Shells. 

 

The premise is somewhat ok but the way it interacts with the augments on the first attempt is horrid. Attacking consumes 0 energy but it still pauses the refilling of energy for the healing. Imagine if firing arcades with Shaft or Scorpion paused the reloading of the sniping shot/salvo for 2-3 seconds every time. The cone angle is bigger but Isida attacks different to Firebird and Freeze. It can latch on to enemies/allies on your end but not actually be doing anything on the server. That's wasted energy there, made even more wasteful thanks to how high the healing energy consumption is now. And when you run out, it takes a whopping 14 seconds to come back to full. And if you're firing but the beam isn't attached to anyone, it's still has neutral energy consumption for some reason. 

 

 

Support Nanobots - This was the opportunity for it to have its damage penalty reduced by a lot but it wasn't done.

 

Shock Nanobot Injection - Still impractical and not worth picking. If you want to play it for its gimmick, it requires you to have your beam attached to someone even if they're at full HP. Can't do that safely anymore because the energy consumption is much higher, and even if the ally is injured, the healing is still halved. 

 

Sustainable Nanobots - Healing being halved makes sense but why the heck is it still using energy for attacking, far less the standard 6 seconds on top of needing that energy for healing and the reload being 14 seconds now. They could have let it keep infinite attacking but with a small damage penalty like -10% or -15% because of the extra range. 

 

Vampire Nanobots - So firstly, the damage was nerfed because Stock now has infinite ammo. So that's less healing Vampire gets. Then it takes 14 seconds to fully recharge instead of 10, hurting Vampire's efficiency even more. The healing is still disabled but on top of that, it's STILL using the 200 eng/sec for healing? How does that make any sense? If it's still using the 200/sec for healing why didn't they let it do Stock's healing since Stock's healing is so small anyway. And if they didn't want to do that, why didn't they make healing consume 0 eng/sec if every bit of energy is even more precious for attacking? 

 

Nanomass Reactor - This and Vampire confirmed just how half-baked the rework was. So Stock has infinite energy to attack. This resulted in a decrease in DPS as well as the niche of Nanomass being temporarily destroyed. So WHY in god's name is this thing still using energy to attack? What thought process went into that? They could have just left it to consume no energy on attack so that its niche on the first attempt would be it's the only augment that can replenish energy for healing when using it for offense. But no, both firing modes are starving for the limited energy. 

 

 

 

It's likely going to take some time for supplementary changes since it wasn't an Isida-oriented patch. It was a very long patch with a mini-rebalance so they'll have to get her new data.

Just from looking at what they attempted to do on the first try, the obvious supplementary change would be to have every Isida act like Nanomass Reactor and replenish an amount of energy for healing when they get a kill. This will encourage them to go out and attack if they want more access to healing during each lifespan. Maybe they'll keep the DPS the same as it is now but give it relatively high critical damage like Freeze as the TTK decreaser to further encourage offense.

Support Nanobots can have its damage penalty reduced to an acceptable amount so that it doesn't feel fruitless to go attack with it. Shock Nanobot Injection can have Stock or near Stock healing so that it's not useless/a downgrade for the average player. Maybe they can do like Explosive Band and give it a random DPS increase to set it apart from the others. With Nanomass Reactor, they can give it infinite attacking energy with a slight DPS increase and be the only augment to replenish 100% energy on a kill. But seeing that it has the unfortunate circumstance of being an epic augment, they probably won't even give it a DPS increase, or something paltry like 5%. And if they figure out a way to allow energy to be replenished while attacking them that opens up different avenues for the augment balance. That's what I assume is going to happen next. 

[Potdindy 866]

@TheCongoSpider This is the type of fantastic analysis for which you're probably known world-wide.

I'm still curious why the change tho...Isida was fine previous imho. The game has been balanced quite well for the most part. Remove its healing ability and you essentially remove the turret as a viable option. This "we are going to swap things around but not explain our reasoning" thing is weird

[Xsader 37]

The Isida has one and only one purpose to exist in the game and it is to be a supporter - using it any other way is an abuse of this turret and may even be considered sabotage.

Isida is a Doctor, it is here to heal teammates, not to kill enemies ...  after all, doctors do not fight in battles (for them it is not necessary to even carry a gun)

[Tekken 374]

It was mistake to switch isida from support role towards attacking role,  we have 4  meele range turrets that can do it better why would anyone pick isida? If someone wants to heal  there are nanotech and healing emitters and if someone wants to attack then there is hammer freeze tesla or firebird... every single one better at it.  Isida was perfect in between of those scenerios. Could help with attacking , could heal decently good, then there was augments oriented more for attacking role  at the expense of healing and vice versa. (vampire nanobots - support nanobots) 

Juggernaut is not valid reason to nerf isida, I can literally use HE or nanotech the same way, instead of using isida dictator/hornet I will use them with viking OD to fully heal jugg. + there is always viking OD that can delete juggernaut in 2s  so nerfing healing because of this reason seem to be stupid.  

In my opinion reason behind this changes seem to be locking healing behind paywall (only option is to get legendary augment) but I dont understand why would they do this, instead of making game more team oriented it just supports bold attacking. Instead of little buff for isida, like cone angle and perhaps better energy recovery for certain augments, they decided to ruin it completely. Instead of balancing long range healing they nerfed most balanced healing option and kept long range healing as it is. It should be addition for that turrets to be able heal yet its superior to isida in every aspect. 

Whole change for isdia seem to be quick  without any second thought about outcome for many good augments. I hope they revert it back how it was because this is just bad and its horrible for every potential new players or fresh legend players who are sturggling to have kills. There was always isida and supportive role where many players could be usefull for team and learn more about legend matches without being useless. Now? You cant do that.

Just another way how to make game more unplayable for occasional players. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28 by Tekken

[JustBlackWolf 874]

They probably murdered Isida due to upcoming augments which might be focused heavily on healing, of course rigorously inside ultra containers. They could be for Isida, or other turrets. Though the whales aren't really interested in healing in pubs unless they go around as a 3-4 player squad and support their overpowered squad mates.

I know these people way too well.

Edited May 28 by JustBlackWolf

[Acecaddy 40]

I really liked isida being a heal/offense hybrid 
but with this new patch, it now sucks at both
You'd think a company with a massage room and 16 years of tanki would come up with something that doesn't turn the hybrid turret into a coke diet tesla with a crappy heal cylinder that barely restores health...
Honestly, they should be offering refunds to the crystals spent on heavy turret changes like these, just saying.

Edited May 30 by Acecaddy

[Dumbledore6969 243]

On 5/22/2025 at 1:24 AM, Gabe2607 said:

Isida was not bothering anyone. In those disgusting MM battles, none cared about poor isidas, as all kids were pressing 1 anyway. 

When isidas helped jugs, they were not making many points, ending up at the end of the table. But all buyers protested because it was just a little harder to kill a jug. So the underdeveloper made jugs way weaker then buyers.

But in Pro Battles, were skills mattered, isidas were shining in glory.

Not anymore. Their power has been completely unplugged.

Isidas will be seen strolling around energyless and sad.

RIP, dear isidas  (2009-2025)

Topic merged

[Iquit 101]

why do you game devs keep changing things that dont need to be changed?

this old classic goated augment is now the worst augment in the game after you devs put your sticky nasty fingers all over every isida augment

you made the healing the same as regular non augment isida but doubled the time? this is worthless. Are you paying attention to what youre doing anymore? non augment isida healing has been nerfed to the point of almost not existing anymore. What is it like 3 or 4 seconds of healing? and you just double that time and slapped it back together and put it back in there.

that +100% chance to get a healing crit means nothing. Even if I sometimes get a crit, its not consistent enough to be of any value. 

and you did something even more insulting to the player trying to use this augment: it still has -50% damage.

this is obviously what you should do: UNLIMITED healing time if youre going to nerf how fast it heals

I remember isidas description saying something along the lines of "this turret is a healer first and a weapon second" but not anymore

What a joke

sarcasm: Why dont you reduce damage to 50% on healing thunder and shaft augments next? you already did it a little bit to the shaft augment.

the matches are still unbalanced train wrecks 90% of the time btw. I hope youre satisfied with all the unbalanced high damage destructive crap that is the total opposite of what this augment used to be.

nerf uranium striker