Reduce power of garage supplies

[creeperskelly 1,283]

The free players exist so the druggers have someone to pound on. If the druggers had to compete with skilled druggers the bad druggers would lose every time.

 

You can tell the unskilled druggers by the fact that they never turn their turrets. :D

[Myrddins 4]

Just feels that every map you go into the players as soon as they spawn they appear to have the works esp DD, if your not drugging your just getting pounded out of play and cannot then get the crystals to ug your gear making you even more of a target.

 

Mods royally Scr3w3d this one up adding the drugs to the daily missions

[BSG-62 574]

Don't put drugs as rewards for daily missions; just crystals. Otherwise people just get free supplies and the problem will just keep going on.

 

 

Are any developers reading anything on this topic????

Have any of you even thought about doing something about this yet?

Or am i just talking to myself again????

Hmmm? Wake up!!!!!

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,669]

@Failarmy: That's what they're trying to do with Daily Missions. They're trying to give away supplies to make it more widespread.

The supplies are free (sort of, but you don't have to pay crystals for them), and you can save them up to use at your own free will to counter other supply users. This makes the game a bit less pay to win. And if you really don't want supplies, you buy a PRO pass. That's how it's supposed to work I guess. :P

 

@racer22: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Supply-users do not enjoy fighting other supply users. Why?

Because then it just becomes about skill, and we all know all druggers are noobs. Just kidding! Just kidding! Lol. Supply users can be skillful too! :D

 

Because the drugs cancel out and all you have in the end is a waste of crystals and TIME because it just means that tanks die slower.

Hello? Double armor? Overpowered health kit? And that equals a slower fund. Yeah I played with Generalissimos. So boring with all the drugs and M4 Titans with high end paints like Needle and Clay. Ugh. I don't want to become a Generalissimo, to be perfectly honest.

But I guess that's when you start playing PRO Battles full time. :P

[RustyNail 1,549]

There are only two ways towards eliminating the druggers.

One is by making supplies rare for all. That means that lot of supplies kits are removed and maybe, supplies cost is increased so that no one can afford to spend dozens in a single game. Or, only very few, which practically is the same. Drops are ok.

Second is by making the drugging time in battle less. That means longer cooling period. Thus, no matter how many supplies there are in the garage, only few can be used per battle.

The alternative for this is if Pro pass gets really popular and many battles with only drops can be created. That means an escalated cost due to player's rank.

 

Devs have made clear that nothing of the above is going to happen. In fact, they intend to make supplies use more popular, thus the daily missions are giving away supplies, and lots of supplies to be frank.

While, for another reason they don't want to make Pro pass more popular. That, I really don't understand... but anyway.

 

Increasing the supplies usage by selling lots of supplies and giving more supplies for free is kind of an anti-druggers measure, that I acknowledge. Not anti-drugging measure, but anti-druggers. It reduces the effect of drugging via extended use of supplies by all the players. Not my kind of solution though, because I think that power ons more rarely used is better for game play and dynamic balance. So, I admit that half solution is underway. But a problem half-dissolved is not equal to a problem solved.

 

One thing I can't get though, is why did they have to treat us in that impolite and arrogant way. They could and should respond to this problem from the beginning talking to us and persuading us for their approach to the matter. What they may have said to the Russian forum is absolutely irrelevant since we don't speak Russian. Since there is an English forum, a Dev should be there for all major topics with massive interest. And really talk to players, not just throw a mystical phrase and let the players try to figure out what they mean. That, is a certain way to make enemies and making enemies out of your customers is not a wise practice, I think.

[kayitsiz 625]

There are only two ways towards eliminating the druggers.

One is by making supplies rare for all. That means that lot of supplies kits are removed and maybe, supplies cost is increased so that no one can afford to spend dozens in a single game. Or, only very few, which practically is the same. Drops are ok.

Second is by making the drugging time in battle less. That means longer cooling period. Thus, no matter how many supplies there are in the garage, only few can be used per battle.

The alternative for this is if Pro pass gets really popular and many battles with only drops can be created. That means an escalated cost due to player's rank.

 

Devs have made clear that nothing of the above is going to happen. In fact, they intend to make supplies use more popular, thus the daily missions are giving away supplies, and lots of supplies to be frank.

While, for another reason they don't want to make Pro pass more popular. That, I really don't understand... but anyway.

 

Increasing the supplies usage by selling lots of supplies and giving more supplies for free is kind of an anti-druggers measure, that I acknowledge. Not anti-drugging measure, but anti-druggers. It reduces the effect of drugging via extended use of supplies by all the players. Not my kind of solution though, because I think that power ons more rarely used is better for game play and dynamic balance. So, I admit that half solution is underway. But a problem half-dissolved is not equal to a problem solved.

 

One thing I can't get though, is why did they have to treat us in that impolite and arrogant way. They could and should respond to this problem from the beginning talking to us and persuading us for their approach to the matter. What they may have said to the Russian forum is absolutely irrelevant since we don't speak Russian. Since there is an English forum, a Dev should be there for all major topics with massive interest. And really talk to players, not just throw a mystical phrase and let the players try to figure out what they mean. That, is a certain way to make enemies and making enemies out of your customers is not a wise practice, I think.

Most of the players(maybe some of them) are not complaining about the difference between much drug and less drug.

They won't be happy if they have drugs.

 

Most of the players(maybe some) hate drugs itself. They hate drugs because drugs are drugs!  :angry:

 

Before playing this game, I was playing a different tank game(actually a robot game), and there was drops. I hated that drops...

Now I still hate drops, more than garage supplies!  :angry:

But also I find garage supplies as a game breaker...  :unsure:

[kayitsiz 625]

This topic should be closed.

No need there anymore... 

[beaku 2,661]

This topic should be closed.

No need there anymore...

As long as there are supplies, this topic has a reason to exist. :p

[creeperskelly 1,283]

Just now was enjoying 2 rounds of fairly clean fighting in Serpuhov. Third round starts - a player named Speckturd with a Thunderking shows up and drugs the hell out of the round - ends up winning it for blue team by cheating.

 

Next round everyone on my team left - so the a**clown ends up with nobody to fight.

[kayitsiz 625]

As long as there are supplies, this topic has a reason to exist. :P

NO!

You will see Unity in less than a year regardless of this discussion.

 

Your 90 pages of 'several months problem' is, in reality, a 6 years problem. I told you supplies are with this game almost from the beginning.

 

Most likely change could be the lowering of supplies power down to 150%. I tried it, it wasn't good. We had discussed it with other game designers and made decision not to change it.

 

When I was last time around here I asked why you do not calculate what will happen if you lower supplies power. You prefer to feed me with everything you had been discussing here, as if I had no idea what was it. Lowering supplies power even to x1.5 will make supplies useless for many turrets due to same number of shots it will need to land on enemy tank. If there is no difference, there will be no supplies.

 

Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible, while we aim to make them as widespread as possible. Aside from monetization, SCD'ed supplies makes battle tactics shift everytime someone using any supply. This adds more layers to the gameplay. While your goal will be to cut this additional layers out of the game, your suggestions will stay unanswered.

What he want is already what we don't want! 

So, no need to discuss...

[RustyNail 1,549]

NO!

What he want is already what we don't want! 

So, no need to discuss...

Ok, and what is the problem for you with this topic open? Does it bother you in anyway? Nobody is made to come here and discuss anything if one doesn't want to...

[racer22_online 206]

Amazing - Tanki finally does a poll on Turret balance.

and asks if we're happy with the current game balance?

 

They forgot to provide an option to suggest that the massive imbalance we see today is caused by e.g. 'permanent' DD on 3 tanks out of 10 V the rest only using air drops.

We cannot CONTROL how many garage drugs one side uses - we're at the mercy of a few problem tankers who have no concern for game balance.

The game rules have to restrain these 'could not care less' users - or we need a way to keep away from them.

 

We know that some of the Tanki battles are fine where each Tanker exercises 'sensible' control over themselves.

If we're ALL 'gentlemen' players then this would work fine.

However, in a 'dog eat dog' world then some users think it's acceptable to give themselves an unfair advantage - I call this drug abuse.

 

Note, despite what Hazel-Rah says - none of us are trying to make the drugs have no effect.

As we have said many times over and over, even with the balance as it is now - minor use of garage drugs plus air drops does not upset the battles.

We do have many good battles like this - I average about 2 in 5 at my level.

 

It's just some users have realised that buying garage drugs is cheaper than MU'ing their tank.  E.g. an M3.5 tank carrying all drugs is effectively an M7 tank  = more powerful than a Gismo!

 

If we can see how many garage drugs each tanker used in the battle score then we would know for sure if they had skill or were just drugging!

Some might even be embarrassed by what we see!

Add up the total garage drugs used by each side and we can form an opinion on which side gained an unfair advantage.

 

or give us the option to 'slow down' the garage drug usage so both sides can have an EQUAL chance.

Do not give us 'unlimited drugs' - this does not work either because 'the weak' cannot use them well enough - causing imbalance.

 

 

In fact it might be a brand new idea :0)

Only let the weak players use garage drugs!

I.e. the forthcoming stats from Tanki should find it easy to identify the weak players - anyone 'not weak' will only be allowed to use 3 of each garage drug per 15 minutes - this would be fair.

 

 

 

 

Please note - the future player stats will be meaningless if some players have used large amounts of drugs and others have not.  Hence, probably best if all payers can be allowed to use the same 'limited' amount of garage drugs per 15 minutes - then we're all given the same opportunities.  The only exception being the weak players can use more.

 

The other problem with the 'stats' is we should have 2 sets:

1 set for being on winning team and 1 set for being on losing teams.

I.e. your performance is always much worse when on a losing team.

and we don't want to encourage people to only play on winning teams (bad as this already is because you get more crystals by playing on the winning team.)

[creeperskelly 1,283]

I told them shaft is the most irritating to deal with.

[creeperskelly 1,283]

 

Another round ruined by druggers. Despite a lead and 10-5 advantage in players red is still drugging like no tomorrow.

 

I told them to shove it and left.

 

Then the next round - new people.

 

Was OK for one round. I was on red, we won by one flag, then the round ended. Switched to blue.

 

Then a few people left and red stared drugging. I guess they didn't like losing the last round.

 

Eventually everyone on blue left but me and one other player (by then I was observing red base as I do during rounds so I can pass on information to my team).

 

6-0, 7 versus 2. And red was still spawning and hitting at least one supply right away. :rolleyes:

 

[FogOfWar_XXX 929]

You will see Unity in less than a year regardless of this discussion.

 

Your 90 pages of 'several months problem' is, in reality, a 6 years problem. I told you supplies are with this game almost from the beginning.

 

Most likely change could be the lowering of supplies power down to 150%. I tried it, it wasn't good. We had discussed it with other game designers and made decision not to change it.

 

When I was last time around here I asked why you do not calculate what will happen if you lower supplies power. You prefer to feed me with everything you had been discussing here, as if I had no idea what was it. Lowering supplies power even to x1.5 will make supplies useless for many turrets due to same number of shots it will need to land on enemy tank. If there is no difference, there will be no supplies.

 

Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible, while we aim to make them as widespread as possible. Aside from monetization, SCD'ed supplies makes battle tactics shift everytime someone using any supply. This adds more layers to the gameplay. While your goal will be to cut this additional layers out of the game, your suggestions will stay unanswered.

Hazel,

 

Reading this gives me an opportunity to address an issue that I have seen with drugs from the beginning, and while it is VERY clear that drugs seem to be well seated as is now, I wanted to address the ides of

 

"Your goal in this discussion is to make supplies as harmless as possible, while we aim to make them as widespread as possible."

 

"SCD'ed supplies makes battle tactics shift everytime someone using any supply. This adds more layers to the gameplay. While your goal will be to cut this additional layers out of the game . . ."

 

This is a very real reality, but I consider it an issue, not a good thing.  Tactics are based upon knowing the enemy, the terrain, the equipment your facing, and the tactics that equipment can capitalize on, and how your equipment can capitalize upon it's own strengths.  In removing the parity of understanding of what you are facing in battle by presenting one thing, but it being another, for example a rail wasp, but it is currently DA and DP, you remove a players ability to discern and predict what to do until they are upon you, when the christmas tree becomes visible.  One cannot take stock of the situation at a distance and plan for the proper response, and even if we could see opponent christmas trees, the ability to fire up power ups upon arrival negates the planning as well.  I cannot intelligently play the game with no knowledge of the actual capability of the opponent in terms of strategy and planning if my opponent has no constants that I can reference as base lines to deal with them.  A rail gun does this much damage, it's that fast on this hull, it can take this many shots, etc.  If the variation exists to squelch my perceptions, then there is nothing but chaos and mayhem.  One also cannot assume that once the power wave has passed you have been surprised and now you can respond.  The ability to drug all the time nearly keeps the variable level of game play constant through out the battle.  So to this point, you stated it adds layers to the game play, but really, it simply adds immense advantage to the opponent, which of course leads me to my next point.

 

The logical response, and the one I would surely recieve from you and others is that you fight fire with fire.  Take that stock pile of drugs and use them, in response.  Fair enough, that would immeadiately offer a CLOSER playing field, because I don't know how much parity I will have with a opponent until they are upon me, in terms of the three power up potentials.  This of course then leads to the idea of me then deciding to play on the safe side and always be as powered up in all three categories as possible.  Since the reasoning there would be mutual, what we have are factions on both sides of a battle simply powering up as much as possible prior to engagement, or awaiting as defender, sitting by boxes, then firing up their own stores of drugs and picking those up upon engagement.  In conclusion to this, the second point is, really, everything is about drug usage, specs of equip not withstanding. 

 

So what is my point?  Well, you claim these things add extra layers to the game play, but from where I sit, as I just described it, it SHIFTS the dynamic, but doesn't expand it, because no one is going "okay, now I WON'T drug" if they are drug users, and if you want to compete, well, gotta drug up.  So the game play is different, BUT CERTAINLY NOT layered or expanded from most players point of view.  "It's drug or die."  So explain the layered context to us from the point of view of a developer then, from the inside out, because from the outside in, that's what is seen in terms of depth and game play, people DO NOT come out of their holes till the are as lit up as possible and then retreat back once they have to cool down.  Where is the dynamic increased in the game this way?

[beaku 2,661]

You think supplies add layers to gameplay? :huh:

Well, maybe they do. Also, I don't have any problem with supplies usage. The problem is when the balance tips over. The point where one team is just forced to quit. How to avoid reaching that point without making any changes in supplies themselves? That's the question we should be tackling here.

[creeperskelly 1,283]

In a perfect world a supply would enable someone with an M2 to compete more fairly with an M3.

 

M3 always has the advantage over M2 if the skills of the players are similar.

 

In the real world M3 > M2 and a drugged M3 >>>> M2. It just becomes more overkill.

 

What if you have M3 versus M3? Then you are more balanced. M3 drugged versus M3 drugged just gets it over with quicker. No stealth, no cunning, no strategy. Instant power and gratification.

 

The fact is that most people want something that is a one shot kill, otherwise, there's no satisfaction for many players.

 

The world now is all about instant gratification - instant results - not many people want to sneak around, hunt their opponent, and close in for the kill.

 

I prefer the latter - I get more satisfaction in using skills and cunning. I feel a bit dirty when I have to drug up just to keep the balance close to where it was without drugs.

 

When I was less wise about the cost of supplies I used to try to compete - if I saw people drugging I would do it too. Then I eventually learned it was a stupid thing to do - so now when I see 3/10 people on a team of 10 drugging I just leave. It's pointless and stupid to stoop to their level.

[BSG-62 574]

The developers should set a use limit. After that amount, the user can keep using them but has to pay a large fine for each one used. That has got to stop them. Or just stop them from using them after the limit. 

[RustyNail 1,549]

You think supplies add layers to gameplay? :huh:

Well, maybe they do. Also, I don't have any problem with supplies usage. The problem is when the balance tips over. The point where one team is just forced to quit. How to avoid reaching that point without making any changes in supplies themselves? That's the question we should be tackling here.

Post #1836 (previous page) answers your question.

[creeperskelly 1,283]

I know this will never happen, but, when one team has 10 players and the other has 5 or less it would be great if garage supplies were disabled for the team with the most players so the team with the least amount has some chance to fight.

 

It's tough enough to fight a battle when outnumbered 2:1 but when they drug it just leaves me speechless.

[Myrddins 4]

Its the spawn camping lot that are using DD, DA on tap and just killing the opposition as they spawn, it is ruining the play, either

 

1. Make maps where spawns are protected from the opposition.

 

2. Limit the number of drugs that can be used in a specific round of the map.

 

3. Repeated use of offensive drugs has a diminishing effect on the player so to many DD halves their weapons damage output & slows rate of fire for the remainder of the round. the Drug Overdose penalty.

[creeperskelly 1,283]

This is one of the worst druggers I see:

 

 

Then he had the audacity to say "I guess I've killed enough"

 

Then to top it off said he finally "gg" when the final score was 25-3.

 

You cheat your way to the top, you can't even play turning your turret, then you add further insult by insinuating it was a "good game."

 

An insulting individual that totally ruins the game.

[r_DidYouKnowThat0 1,669]

@Creeperskelly: Oh that's just sad. :P

25 - 3 . .

And look at those k/d ratios.15/27, 26/46, 18/34, 3/39, 19/56, 7/47.

I would've just left. Lol. Waste of time and supplies.

[beaku 2,661]

@creeperskelly, drugging is not cheating.

[creeperskelly 1,283]

What purpose does it serve when your team is so far ahead in a match that it is impossible to lose?

 

What purpose is there to doing it when your team has 10 players and the other team only 5? Because this is what happened the next round. I got fed up with the behavior and quit.

 

Cheating: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

 

It's not unfair or dishonest to have better equipment, and, if the score was tied 1-1 or it was 2-1 it would not be acting or behaving unfairly to use drugs to preserve that tie or that single flag lead; there are instances when it is acceptable.

 

But, to have an insurmountable lead and still use drugs just to run up the score? And then to say it was a good game? That's cheating.

 

When I am on a team with 10 people and the other team has 5 I would never consider using drugs. Often times I won't even use pickups because I don't believe in playing unfairly. In fact sometimes I'll even just park my tank waiting for others to join the other team. It's nice to see players who do the same. It makes the game more enjoyable.