update Patch Update #691 - Released 17th June 2022

[alkyng 3,080]

Just now, frederik123456 said:

Not sure here, but I think it still gives you the slow animation for the high rarity items.

I hope I get an exotic this day to prove

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:54 AM, Kimura said:

Paladin OD? Just use AP Immunity and melee turret. Paladin OD is for support/attack!

LOL... it's used for everything.  With Jammer and status-immunity it's one of the best for capping.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

16 hours ago, firety31 said:

Great, saved alot of time, ESPECIALLY for weekly containers, which are not interesting at all, I know what the rewards so the slow was unneeded at all, there wont be an exotic item which will surprise me!!

But I feel like even if I speeded the animation, exotic should still have a slow rhythm

Change is eh. It should have been an option to toggle on/off.

Cater to one side, and not the other.

People who want to open faster benefit from the change. People who don't want to open all their Containers. RIP.

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

41 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

LOL... it's used for everything.  With Jammer and status-immunity it's one of the best for capping.

Been a long while since you've played, huh? 

 

They removed Paladin's Jammer 2 months ago, as well as making Hopper and Hunter and Ares' Overdrives hard counters to it.  

[Annihilation 128]

On 6/17/2022 at 8:37 AM, love_italy said:

I am so agree to this. this drone needs a Nerf ASAP

Let's see... Saboteur drone used to place 8 extra mines rather than 7 which it does now at max upgrades. It uses 7 extra mines per use when it used to take just 2 extra. Mines in general had their activation proximity decreased noticeably making it capable to literally drive through saboteur mines if the placer is careless/hasn't had enough time to block gaps with more mines. Last but not least, killing the person using the drone just once will get rid of every single mine. With the magnum splash radius upgrade, smart use with thunder or striker (especially with remote rockets) and you can easily kill people using saboteur. As for people using saboteur in the enemy base of all places, they're idiots in general because spawn immunity just allows people to drive over them with no consequence. 

Like it or not, Saboteur is a defence drone, and if you're complaining about it being used for its main purpose of blocking entrances/exits to defend the base they're placed in/around, then that kind of defeats the point of the drone... It's like complaining that people who use Defender that they become too hard to kill despite that being the point. Every drone has it's counters other than Brutus and Hyperion. Jammer, EMP, AP, etc... Stop whining about people placing mines to actually defend their base and just realise that attacking isn't everything in those gamemodes. 

[LambSauce 1,893]

7 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

making Hopper and Hunter and Ares' Overdrives hard counters to it

Hard counters? Wouldn’t a hard counter be something that disables it?

[alkyng 3,080]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:41 AM, yellowghetto said:

Change is eh. It should have been an option to toggle on/off.

Cater to one side, and not the other.

People who want to open faster benefit from the change. People who don't want to open all their Containers. RIP.

I don't know why you want to open them slowly, you can gather more than 5 a day. It's not interesting at all to see mmm x1000 mmm x1000 mmm x1000 mmm x1000 mmm x100 SB.

Edited June 23, 2022 by NikmanGT
Kindly refrain from provoking other users

[YANUKFIN 493]

7 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Been a long while since you've played, huh? 

 

They removed Paladin's Jammer 2 months ago, as well as making Hopper and Hunter and Ares' Overdrives hard counters to it.  

Funny I still see the hack dominating around siege points, CP points and taking the flag and making a run for it, and getting away more often than not.

Paladin is a legal hack, just like the flying hack before it.

[Hypersomnia 1,735]

6 hours ago, Annihilation said:

Let's see... Saboteur drone used to place 8 extra mines rather than 7 which it does now at max upgrades. It uses 7 extra mines per use when it used to take just 2 extra.

OH MY GOD 7 MINES PER USE INSTEAD OF 2?!? GOOD JESUS. Yeah. if you find a person who doesn't have near infinite supply of mines in 2022 i'll give you a million dollars.

6 hours ago, Annihilation said:

Mines in general had their activation proximity decreased noticeably making it capable to literally drive through saboteur mines if the placer is careless/hasn't had enough time to block gaps with more mines.

Oh cool but once he survives for more than 2 seconds the map turns into a mine field. Woohoo what a nerf. 

6 hours ago, Annihilation said:

Last but not least, killing the person using the drone just once will get rid of every single mine. With the magnum splash radius upgrade, smart use with thunder or striker (especially with remote rockets) and you can easily kill people using saboteur.

uh...  Quote But if we take this logic then i can say "Oh helios is not OP at all just use ricoshet protection module." The point is i dont want to equip mammoth and basically do nothing just so i can destroy couple mines once every 2 minutes or something i want fun game-play without being forced to equip something i dont want.

6 hours ago, Annihilation said:

Like it or not, Saboteur is a defence drone, and if you're complaining about it being used for its main purpose of blocking entrances/exits to defend the base they're placed in/around, then that kind of defeats the point of the drone...

Like it or not Saboteur is OP defensive drone. Even OG defender with 50% prot against you was less pain in the butt than this absurd drone. As of now this is THE ONLY drone that makes not one but THREE MODES COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE. And you don't have to be skilled to use that drone, many times i saw non-turret turning noob sit in the corner and do nothing but spam mines. when you finally go 1v1 against him you just erase him from existence because of how trash he is. I don't remember OG defender or Crisis or Lifeguard making modes completely unplayable and turning it into TDM but you can't go near enemy base or you're dead. Even hopper capping flags was more fair than this because at least it would not "freeze" the game.

But of course you don't want it nerfed since you abuse that drone for 20+ hours as of now. 
 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Kimura

[LambSauce 1,893]

34 minutes ago, Kimura said:

As of now this is THE ONLY drone that makes not one but THREE MODES COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE

If you want to see something OP look at Paladin’s OD.

But you’re talking about Saboteur…LOL.

[YANUKFIN 493]

20 minutes ago, Kimura said:

But of course you don't want it nerfed since you abuse that drone for 20+ hours as of now.

And you want it nerfed because it messes with your karma in battle . 

Actually being able to place your mines strategically "AND" avoiding enemy fire is a skill, especially when half the enemy team is out for your blood, which I find rather funny and entertaining. As a camping noob mine layer of many years and with over 200hrs on saboteur on my main, I rarely see the enemy base, which suits me just fine.

Saboteur is one of the most supply sucking drones in the game and when upgrading it, you at times for quite a few steps and ten's of thousands of cry get no reward (extra mine)

And as has been mentioned, you now get less mines and the activation time has been (unfairly) increased.

I also use magnum and at times shaft just to infuriate the enemy even more, which is very satisfying.

LOL if and when I get that new turret scorpion, I hope its as effective in triggering you mine/camper haters, soooo funny.

If you can't beat em, join em, or get smarter than them.

[Hypersomnia 1,735]

36 minutes ago, LambSauce said:

If you want to see something OP look at Paladin’s OD.

But you’re talking about Saboteur…LOL.

After the jammer nerf for Paladin OD i guess i became the only person in this world who can take down paladin OD with no issues. Just spam him with shots as easy as that. Also at least Paladin ODs don't turn CTF RGB and ASL into TDM

 

33 minutes ago, YANUKFIN said:

And you want it nerfed because it messes with your karma in battle . 

Actually being able to place your mines strategically "AND" avoiding enemy fire is a skill, especially when half the enemy team is out for your blood, which I find rather funny and entertaining. As a camping noob mine layer of many years and with over 200hrs on saboteur on my main, I rarely see the enemy base, which suits me just fine.

Saboteur is one of the most supply sucking drones in the game and when upgrading it, you at times for quite a few steps and ten's of thousands of cry get no reward (extra mine)

And as has been mentioned, you now get less mines and the activation time has been (unfairly) increased.

I also use magnum and at times shaft just to infuriate the enemy even more, which is very satisfying.

LOL if and when I get that new turret scorpion, I hope its as effective in triggering you mine/camper haters, soooo funny.

If you can't beat em, join em, or get smarter than them.

Karma in battle? Ohhh u r a Reddit mod so it makes sense. 

Okay then i'll just whip out my 50% mine prot with armadillo and crisis and have some fun oneshotting you with random OP stuff i have as a buyer. 

[YANUKFIN 493]

14 minutes ago, Kimura said:

After the jammer nerf for Paladin OD i guess i became the only person in this world who can take down paladin OD with no issues. Just spam him with shots as easy as that. Also at least Paladin ODs don't turn CTF RGB and ASL into TDM

 

Karma in battle? Ohhh u r a Reddit mod so it makes sense. 

Okay then i'll just whip out my 50% mine prot with armadillo and crisis and have some fun oneshotting you with random OP stuff i have as a buyer. 

Very welcome to try. 

Better bring your own headstone to. Make the inscription I TRIED, I FAILED, NO SECOND CHANCES, I'M NOOB.  

[Hypersomnia 1,735]

8 minutes ago, YANUKFIN said:

Very welcome to try. 

Better bring your own headstone to. Make the inscription I TRIED, I FAILED, NO SECOND CHANCES, I'M NOOB.  

Here are some strats i use. (No AP immunity needed) 
1. Focus all your damage on Paladin even if another enemies are attacking you, just focus on paladin unless you're using dead turrets like railgun or something you'll either kill Paladin or make him super low to the point where even its healing won't help much if your teammates have IQ above room temperature.

2. Use OD Hunter, Ares, Hopper and Wasp (most of the time) are perfect for killing paladin without  any problems. yea you won't one shot  paladin but your chances of killing it go from 10% to 95%.

3. Think of your own strats.

4. Since people like for anothers to tell "oh just use this X conbo nobody likes to kill this Y player"  then i'll do too. Use Shaft. More than likely Paladin won't have prot from shaft so its just going to be easy oneshot.

And now if you have AP immunity on a hull you use Paladin OD is nothing more but annoying thing its like EMP immunity when hunter activates its OD.

DO NOT hesitate to use your OD against paladin. there is no point in saving your OD if Paladin just going to take your flag and win. Your OD is more than likely going to charge faster than Paladin's too.

Thats what i do. Even thought i am a buyer 90% of the time i use conbos that F2P players can easily access without even buying a battle pass. My most Pay to Play thing would be EMP immunity. and EMP immunity won't help against Paladin OD.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Kimura

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

3 hours ago, YANUKFIN said:

Funny I still see the hack dominating around siege points, CP points and taking the flag and making a run for it, and getting away more often than not. 

I never said that Paladin was nerfed into the ground so hard that it instantly blows up if you try to fight someone with it. I said that a major reason why it was uncounterable was removed alongside a few of the existing Overdrives becoming powerful enough to dispatch of it. If you ask me, I don't like that direction they took with it either because you now have to depend on a Hunter or Hopper being near it during the duration. 

 

3 hours ago, LambSauce said:

Hard counters? Wouldn’t a hard counter be something that disables it?

To disable the Paladin, you have to kill it. The only way to do that was high/burst damage. Hunter sends 2,000 unblockable damage towards it as well as having its own damage to back it up. Hopper just one-shots it. And it just so happens the thing stopping them from using their abilities on the Paladin was removed. It's a forced hard counter via deleting it instantly. 

[Annihilation 128]

3 hours ago, Kimura said:

But of course you don't want it nerfed since you abuse that drone for 20+ hours as of now. 

It's already been nerfed in several ways, like I mentioned and you quite literally pointed out. 
 

 

3 hours ago, Kimura said:

Like it or not Saboteur is OP defensive drone. Even OG defender with 50% prot against you was less pain in the butt than this absurd drone. As of now this is THE ONLY drone that makes not one but THREE MODES COMPLETELY UNPLAYABLE.

Clearly someone missed the era of hopper/crisis/ricochet back when Hopper had no stability issues. RGB, CTF, ASL. I fight plenty of teams with at least one saboteur user on them on a daily basis, and they really don't cause much trouble if you can kill them consistently which is not hard if they're a mult... which is pretty common given they make up more of the player-base than even buyers. 

3 hours ago, Kimura said:

But if we take this logic then i can say "Oh helios is not OP at all just use ricoshet protection module."

Comparing an augment to a drone in the first place isn't really a fair comparison. Helios is a completely different thing, and yes it's busted, and it will continue to be as long as it's extremely rare. I've never heard anyone say to just put the module on against it, it only helps when you have Armadillo to back it as well because ricochet crits are absurd.

So let me compare Saboteur with other drones to assess how "busted" it is; firstly, Booster/Defender/Trickster. The trio of supply boosters. Booster has been nerfed to uselessness, so no real point bringing that up, and with the freeze effect changes disabling the very effect it boosts as well as usual counters like EMP/Jammer. Defender isn't as common I find, which is strange really. I suppose with all the EMP/AP augments around you lose either way, but if not, then you are a literal tank, in a tank game. Trickster makes you obnoxiously quick whilst still having the ability to use boosted armour and damage, making running in and out of enemy bases and capping things very quick. All of these drones can grant their effect immediately. No cooldown on the supply after it runs out either, whilst supplying a boost to its given supply. Same with Crisis which I shouldn't need to talk about. Hyperion is just Brutus with extra steps. Costly to run, and much more expensive to max out, no weakness really besides EMP but that's just a general thing. Miner is the most comparable with Saboteur for obvious reasons, they're both mine-based drones afterall. Miner will allow you to place a ton of mines which stay after you die (unless you had the Jammer status effect at death, but there's an immunity for that...) and lets you place them much quicker than saboteur does with the supply cooldown being 10 seconds shorter. With Miner you can place mines in exactly the right spot to properly block the base, and whilst you will get a smaller amount of mines down in the long run, you will be able to place them in the smartest spots, and if you survive long enough for the drone cooldown to wear off then they'll stay after each and every single death until the end of the battle (unless you place more mines than it can keep at max upgrades anyway). Saboteur lets you place a ring of extra mines around your original one. It uses 7 extra mines per use regardless of upgrade level/amount of extra mines placed (only places 7 extra at 18/20 upgrades if I remember correctly) and all it takes is a single magnum crit or person to get into the base or just be good at using splash damage turrets to hit you and eventually kill you, getting rid of every single mine placed. Mammoth is another option for getting rid of mines, as is Titan OD, People don't have to switch to those though, not even mine protection. Saboteur isn't even good on maps where you have to defend 3 or more entrances/exits to the base. It doesn't get a cooldown reduction on mines unlike Miner, and it costs a lot more to fully utilise and put into action. If you have no means of dealing with the saboteur user, then that's good play on their part but most of the time, that's impossible. Most maps simply don't allow for there to be a near-impossible place to kill someone in. It's not hard to get into the saboteur's base early in the battle, and just consistently coming back to kill them before they can place a ton of mines, due to the standard 30 second cooldown on both mines and the drone, which doesn't reset upon dying either. 

TLDR: Saboteur isn't overpowered, you're just incapable of dealing with it yourself and so complain about it serving it's purpose in the game. Despite it having plenty of counters and drawbacks, like most other drones. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

3 minutes ago, Annihilation said:

Booster has been nerfed to uselessness, so no real point bringing that up,

Really? Why do you think this?

[Annihilation 128]

1 minute ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Really? Why do you think this?

It used to be 200% damage bonus for 3 seconds, then it was 50% for the full duration, then 40... then 30... now it's 20% bonus despite consuming the same amount of supplies and having more counters than ever before. Defender just outright beats it in every way now despite them being perfect counters to each other. I agreed with nerfing it down to 30%, but 20 is just pointless for the most part. It takes upgrading it to like 16/20 before the actual damage effect outdoes Brutus making it a pointless drone until you've already spent nearly a million crystals on it. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

19 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Been a long while since you've played, huh? 

 

They removed Paladin's Jammer 2 months ago, as well as making Hopper and Hunter and Ares' Overdrives hard counters to it.  

Yes and... that's awesome!

 

2 months and they have not updated the WIKI?  

Edited June 22, 2022 by wolverine848

[TheCongoSpider 8,962]

52 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

2 months and they have not updated the WIKI?  

Correct. You would know that if you were playing (this isn't meant to sound aggressive). If you want up-to-date information, use the German Wiki. 

[yellowghetto 3,206]

10 hours ago, Annihilation said:

It's already been nerfed in several ways, like I mentioned and you quite literally pointed out. 
 

 

Clearly someone missed the era of hopper/crisis/ricochet back when Hopper had no stability issues. RGB, CTF, ASL. I fight plenty of teams with at least one saboteur user on them on a daily basis, and they really don't cause much trouble if you can kill them consistently which is not hard if they're a mult... which is pretty common given they make up more of the player-base than even buyers. 

Comparing an augment to a drone in the first place isn't really a fair comparison. Helios is a completely different thing, and yes it's busted, and it will continue to be as long as it's extremely rare. I've never heard anyone say to just put the module on against it, it only helps when you have Armadillo to back it as well because ricochet crits are absurd.

So let me compare Saboteur with other drones to assess how "busted" it is; firstly, Booster/Defender/Trickster. The trio of supply boosters. Booster has been nerfed to uselessness, so no real point bringing that up, and with the freeze effect changes disabling the very effect it boosts as well as usual counters like EMP/Jammer. Defender isn't as common I find, which is strange really. I suppose with all the EMP/AP augments around you lose either way, but if not, then you are a literal tank, in a tank game. Trickster makes you obnoxiously quick whilst still having the ability to use boosted armour and damage, making running in and out of enemy bases and capping things very quick. All of these drones can grant their effect immediately. No cooldown on the supply after it runs out either, whilst supplying a boost to its given supply. Same with Crisis which I shouldn't need to talk about. Hyperion is just Brutus with extra steps. Costly to run, and much more expensive to max out, no weakness really besides EMP but that's just a general thing. Miner is the most comparable with Saboteur for obvious reasons, they're both mine-based drones afterall. Miner will allow you to place a ton of mines which stay after you die (unless you had the Jammer status effect at death, but there's an immunity for that...) and lets you place them much quicker than saboteur does with the supply cooldown being 10 seconds shorter. With Miner you can place mines in exactly the right spot to properly block the base, and whilst you will get a smaller amount of mines down in the long run, you will be able to place them in the smartest spots, and if you survive long enough for the drone cooldown to wear off then they'll stay after each and every single death until the end of the battle (unless you place more mines than it can keep at max upgrades anyway). Saboteur lets you place a ring of extra mines around your original one. It uses 7 extra mines per use regardless of upgrade level/amount of extra mines placed (only places 7 extra at 18/20 upgrades if I remember correctly) and all it takes is a single magnum crit or person to get into the base or just be good at using splash damage turrets to hit you and eventually kill you, getting rid of every single mine placed. Mammoth is another option for getting rid of mines, as is Titan OD, People don't have to switch to those though, not even mine protection. Saboteur isn't even good on maps where you have to defend 3 or more entrances/exits to the base. It doesn't get a cooldown reduction on mines unlike Miner, and it costs a lot more to fully utilise and put into action. If you have no means of dealing with the saboteur user, then that's good play on their part but most of the time, that's impossible. Most maps simply don't allow for there to be a near-impossible place to kill someone in. It's not hard to get into the saboteur's base early in the battle, and just consistently coming back to kill them before they can place a ton of mines, due to the standard 30 second cooldown on both mines and the drone, which doesn't reset upon dying either. 

TLDR: Saboteur isn't overpowered, you're just incapable of dealing with it yourself and so complain about it serving it's purpose in the game. Despite it having plenty of counters and drawbacks, like most other drones. 

There isn't a clear way to balance this Drone.

On some maps, this Drone is ineffective in closing all exits and taking cover, while on some maps. There is only a couple entrance and easy for the Saboteur to just camp and hide. 

An example of a bad map: Sandbox, Polygon, Osa. There are open areas for you to be sniped, or wrecked by Magnums.

Maps that is plain unfair. Wolfenstein, Lost Temple, Berlin. These maps are big, easy to run and hide. Over time, there becomes too many mines on each side of the base and turns the game unplayable.

 

So Saboteur technically isn't OP in terms of game balance, when to pick the Drone, but this Drone is definitely objectively OP. Especially in CTF.

 

Sorta like Crisis nowadays. Status Effects running rampant restricts lots of Crisis usage. Objectively OP in capture modes, but just ehhh in the others.

Edited June 23, 2022 by yellowghetto

[yellowghetto 3,206]

10 hours ago, Annihilation said:

It used to be 200% damage bonus for 3 seconds, then it was 50% for the full duration, then 40... then 30... now it's 20% bonus despite consuming the same amount of supplies and having more counters than ever before. Defender just outright beats it in every way now despite them being perfect counters to each other. I agreed with nerfing it down to 30%, but 20 is just pointless for the most part. It takes upgrading it to like 16/20 before the actual damage effect outdoes Brutus making it a pointless drone until you've already spent nearly a million crystals on it. 

Hmm. It's almost like every Turret is starting to do more and more damage, that Booster nerfs are required. I'm not sure man.

Can we also nerf Trickster yet? 40% -> 30% is needed. Difference between this and the Crisis Drone is that this Drone is able to go and insane speeds, while maintaining buffs for protection and damage. It's too overwhelming.

Edited June 23, 2022 by yellowghetto

[Annihilation 128]

I just wish that booster was never changed from how it was originally, it was unique, and being able to one-shot juggernauts with shaft was ridiculously fun, would do again. The issue isn't with booster though, the tanki devs just don't know how to balance their game. Rather than nerfing what's already OP, they just buff everything else and create a whole new set of unbalance. 

As for what you said earlier about saboteur not being OP (thank you anyway), I agree. It's situational, quite frankly that can be said about most drones in the game. Saboteur does not shine in most gamemodes and on most maps it is very hard to effectively block entrances into the base. On the maps it is good, it's very good, and that's how situational items work. They fit in for their specific uses and when they can be utilised that way, then yes, they can seem OP, but in the general scheme of things, they really aren't. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Correct. You would know that if you were playing (this isn't meant to sound aggressive). If you want up-to-date information, use the German Wiki. 

I'll play again when Ukraine has all their country back.