declined Proposal to Separate Hover Hulls from Traditional Tanks for Balanced Gameplay

[Mr.Blitz 59]

Hello Tanki Online Community,

As a long-time player who recently achieved the rank of Marshal, I’ve enjoyed the challenges and excitement Tanki Online brings. However, I want to address an issue that I believe disrupts the balance and spirit of the game: the inclusion of hover hulls alongside traditional tank hulls on the same battlefield.

Hover hulls, while innovative, bring several challenges that impact the fairness and enjoyment of the game. Their unique mechanics superior armor, exceptional agility, and multi-directional movement give them a significant edge over traditional caterpillar-track hulls. This imbalance is felt most acutely by non-premium players who cannot afford to invest real money into upgrades, leaving them at a clear disadvantage.

Main Concerns:
1. Imbalanced Gameplay: Hover hulls are much harder to hit due to their rapid side-to-side movement and agility, making traditional tanks feel outdated and underpowered.
2. Deviation from Tanki Identity: Many players joined Tanki Online for the experience of classic tank battles, and hover hulls feel more like futuristic aircraft than tanks.
3. Pay-to-Win Dynamics: Hover hulls amplify the gap between paying and non-paying players, creating frustration for those who prefer skill-based competition.
4. Unfair Matchmaking: Mixing hover hulls with traditional tanks creates an uneven playing field, leaving traditional hull users feeling like easy targets.

Suggested Solutions:
- Separate Game Modes: Introduce a dedicated game mode or matchmaking system for hover hulls, allowing players to choose their preferred playstyle.
- Rebalance Hover Hulls: Adjust their stats to bring them closer in line with traditional tanks. This could include reducing their movement speed or armor.
- Remove Hover Hulls: If neither of the above options is feasible, consider phasing out hover hulls entirely to restore the classic tank battle experience.

This isn’t just my perspective... I’ve spoken with many other players who share similar frustrations. The introduction of hover hulls has shifted the dynamics of the game, leaving many feeling alienated. I urge the Tanki Online team to consider these suggestions and listen to the community’s feedback. The game has a strong and loyal player base, and addressing this issue would only strengthen that bond...

Best regards.

[NikmanGT 4,437]

Declined

Hi, your proposal seems completely acceptable, and the same mindset shared by the majority of our tankers.

Hence, Developers have decided to bring back the 'Old Tanki' version of the gameplay under the name of 'Tanki Classic' which will feature the Flash interface and the old mechanics that all of us loved. No hovering hulls, no current overpowered mechanics, just simple classic gameplay.

So now there exists no point in making changes to the current version of the game when a separate project with desired aim is in the making.

Cheers

[Mr.Blitz 59]

On 2/3/2025 at 5:58 PM, NikmanGT said:

Hi, your proposal seems completely acceptable, and the same mindset shared by the majority of our tankers.

Hence, Developers have decided to bring back the 'Old Tanki' version of the gameplay under the name of 'Tanki Classic' which will feature the Flash interface and the old mechanics that all of us loved. No hovering hulls, no current overpowered mechanics, just simple classic gameplay.

So now there exists no point in making changes to the current version of the game when a separate project with desired aim is in the making.

Cheers

I appreciate your response and the approval of my proposals, even if one was immediately marked as declined... However, I must express my concerns regarding the reasoning behind the rejection of my second proposal.

While I understand the idea behind Tanki Classic, it does not address the core issue I raised. My proposal was not about bringing back the old game but about balancing the current version by separating hover hulls from traditional tank mechanics. The argument that Tanki Classic will satisfy players who dislike the modern mechanics fails to consider those who enjoy the 3D version but want a fair, grounded combat experience without hover hulls dominating the battlefield.

Simply put, the existence of Tanki Classic does not solve the problem in Tanki Online. If anything, it reinforces the division between players rather than improving the gameplay balance. Players like myself are not asking for a return to the past.. we are asking for a better and more balanced future in the games main version... If the majority of tankers share this mindset, as you stated, then why not consider adjustments within Tanki Online instead of dismissing concerns by pointing to a separate project? Segregating problematic mechanics into an alternative version does not equate to solving their impact on the main game.

I urge the developers to reconsider their stance and address the core gameplay balance issues within Tanki Online itself, rather than diverting attention to Tanki Classic as a catch-all solution.

[Hypersomnia 1,739]

On 2/3/2025 at 6:58 PM, NikmanGT said:

Hi, your proposal seems completely acceptable, and the same mindset shared by the majority of our tankers.

Hence, Developers have decided to bring back the 'Old Tanki' version of the gameplay under the name of 'Tanki Classic' which will feature the Flash interface and the old mechanics that all of us loved. No hovering hulls, no current overpowered mechanics, just simple classic gameplay.

well guess i found my excuse whenever anything happens in this game from now on. 

also the Gentleman over here says the obvious and very major problem this game currently has and has given a possible fix to it. It is obvious he doesn't want 'old tanki' or whatever he just wants a third version of tanki online called 'tanki online but it makes common sense' which might even be more liked than 'tanki classic'.

On 2/2/2025 at 1:18 AM, GhostLynx said:

Separate Game Modes: Introduce a dedicated game mode or matchmaking system for hover hulls, allowing players to choose their preferred playstyle.

they already exist technically. if you pay attention any festive mode where any combo is allowed (not counting augments etc. just tank/turret) and at least extra 1% of critical thinking is required to perform good there is about 95% if not higher reduction in hover hulls. While it could be said its just a coincidence I think the actual answer is pretty obvious and doesn't take much thinking to figure out.

On 2/2/2025 at 1:18 AM, GhostLynx said:

I’ve spoken with many other players who share similar frustrations. The introduction of hover hulls has shifted the dynamics of the game, leaving many feeling alienated.

From my casual chatting with random people in general chat or in game chats it's not just 'many players' it's LITERALLY EVERYONE except those who has thousands of hours with hover hull because... cold water alert!! they are just noobs that rely on overpowered equipment to be competitive and will defend hover hulls like their life depends on it

[Tekken 393]

On 2/3/2025 at 5:58 PM, NikmanGT said:

Declined

Hi, your proposal seems completely acceptable, and the same mindset shared by the majority of our tankers.

Hence, Developers have decided to bring back the 'Old Tanki' version of the gameplay under the name of 'Tanki Classic' which will feature the Flash interface and the old mechanics that all of us loved. No hovering hulls, no current overpowered mechanics, just simple classic gameplay.

So now there exists no point in making changes to the current version of the game when a separate project with desired aim is in the making.

Cheers

so do we have to accept fact that Hover hulls are just clearly way better and deal with it?  Why even pretending there is balance in game? Just look at good players and observe what hulls majority of them are playing. I am not bad player but when I am playing  track hull and I face someone good with hover hulls I will lose most of the times, if we both have 50 % prot, arma and same turret  all odds are against me and its frustrating because only option for me is to use that trash too  to be competetive  

 

I do not like classic tanki, its extremely boring, yes it will probably be more fair but I am not gonna spend 4 months to rank up and  playing same boring combo.  There should not be two options left -  boring but +- balanced classic tanki, or  unbalanced but otherwise fun version ...

[Mr.Blitz 59]

On 2/3/2025 at 8:38 PM, Hypersomnia said:

From my casual chatting with random people in general chat or in game chats it's not just 'many players' it's LITERALLY EVERYONE except those who has thousands of hours with hover hull because... cold water alert!! they are just noobs that rely on overpowered equipment to be competitive and will defend hover hulls like their life depends on it

Exactly! This isn’t just a matter of some players being frustrated.. it’s practically universal among those who value skill-based gameplay. Hover hulls have fundamentally warped the dynamics of Tanki Online, turning what was once a game of strategy, positioning, and precision into a playground for those who rely on broken mechanics to stay competitive... And let’s be honest.. if hover hulls were truly balanced, their defenders wouldn’t need to cling to them so desperately. The fact that they must defend them so aggressively only proves the point: these hulls offer an unfair advantage that makes traditional tank gameplay obsolete.

This is why simply saying “Tanki Classic exists” is not an acceptable solution.. The issue is here, in the main version of Tanki Online, and it needs to be addressed where it actually affects the players.

So the real question is.. will the developers listen to the overwhelming majority of their community, or will they keep pretending that this issue doesn’t exist?

[Tekken 393]

On 2/3/2025 at 11:31 PM, GhostLynx said:

 

So the real question is.. will the developers listen to the overwhelming majority of their community, or will they keep pretending that this issue doesn’t exist?

I think hover hulls will stay same, here is my reasoning, they have introduced gamepad controls, they will probably introduce tanki to consoles soon (which is not bad imo) , recent hover hull buff ( very hard to flip  them  up side down) is only implying that, I do know that first impersion for such new players is important and track hulls will certainly be hard to control with gamepad so I got the reasoning behind hover hull being hard to flip,   but imo they should not do something to favour one side and ignore demands of the other side, side that exist in game since beginning.  If they changed physics of hover hulls to make life easier for consoles so be it,  I would be frustrated to flip myself half the time I am going through map like highways, but there are options how to balance them in a way its beneficial and enjoyable for console players yet balanced against track hulls.   

[Mr.Blitz 59]

On 2/4/2025 at 12:14 AM, Tekken8 said:

I think hover hulls will stay same, here is my reasoning, they have introduced gamepad controls, they will probably introduce tanki to consoles soon (which is not bad imo) , recent hover hull buff ( very hard to flip  them  up side down) is only implying that, I do know that first impersion for such new players is important and track hulls will certainly be hard to control with gamepad so I got the reasoning behind hover hull being hard to flip,   but imo they should not do something to favour one side and ignore demands of the other side, side that exist in game since beginning.  If they changed physics of hover hulls to make life easier for consoles so be it,  I would be frustrated to flip myself half the time I am going through map like highways, but there are options how to balance them in a way its beneficial and enjoyable for console players yet balanced against track hulls.

You bring up an interesting point, but let’s be honest.. this isn’t about “improving controls for new players” or “preparing for console integration.” That’s just the excuse they’re feeding us. The real problem is that hover hulls have completely broken the fundamental mechanics of what made TO a tank game in the first place.

Hover hulls don’t just move differently, they defy everything that defines proper tank maneuvering. Instant side-swiping, unnatural acceleration shifts and physics that allow them to glide like UFOs rather than operate like actual armored vehicles. If the argument was truly about “helping new players adjust,” then let’s be real.. new players would have played with or without hover hulls. The real reason these monstrosities exist is simple:  Hover hulls sell.

And instead of listening to the veteran community that built this game, the developers are dead set on shoving hover hulls down our throats because they know their most loyal players won’t spend money on this garbage... If they really cared about “fair balance” or “new player experience,” the logical solution would be to separate hover hulls from traditional tank battles altogether. Let them have their own exclusive game mode, where all the sci-fi spaceship lovers can fly around like they’re in a low-budget Star Wars ripoff. Meanwhile, the rest of us, the actual tank players can enjoy the game the way it was meant to be played.. But no, instead of offering a choice, they’re forcing this abomination onto all of us. And here’s the harsh truth:  TO is no longer a tank game. It’s a cash-fueled gimmick factory, desperately throwing out unbalanced mechanics to milk whatever’s left of the player base... 

So the real question isn’t whether hover hulls are staying.. the real question is: How much more of this nonsense will players tolerate before they finally walk away for good?

 

[JustBlackWolf 885]

Sorry sweetheart, you're asking them to remove one of their major source of income, they'll never remove anything, what they will do however is break what they said in the past and do it anyway. Like removing drones and not even giving a proper refund before turning them into p2w augments. I appreciate the effort you're putting into giving suggestions for this dying game, you remind me of myself some years ago, you'll give up eventually, you're just... Not a veteran and therefore you can't comprehend how things work around here just yet. Wishing you the best of luck.

[TheCongoSpider 8,969]

There aren't enough players to do that. 

[Maf 32,328]

On 2/2/2025 at 3:18 AM, GhostLynx said:

[Hover hulls'] unique mechanics superior armor, exceptional agility, and multi-directional movement give them a significant edge over traditional caterpillar-track hulls.

Is it a significant edge though? If this was a few years ago when Hopper was first added, then I'd agree with you. But since then hover hulls' agility got nerfed, so now their power, acceleration and strafing ability is way less than it used to be. I play with both hovers and tracked hulls and I wouldn't say there's much of a difference between them. If there was, then 99% of players would be using hovers these days as it would be the meta.

On 2/2/2025 at 3:18 AM, GhostLynx said:

Main Concerns:
1. Imbalanced Gameplay: Hover hulls are much harder to hit due to their rapid side-to-side movement and agility, making traditional tanks feel outdated and underpowered.
2. Deviation from Tanki Identity: Many players joined Tanki Online for the experience of classic tank battles, and hover hulls feel more like futuristic aircraft than tanks.
3. Pay-to-Win Dynamics: Hover hulls amplify the gap between paying and non-paying players, creating frustration for those who prefer skill-based competition.
4. Unfair Matchmaking: Mixing hover hulls with traditional tanks creates an uneven playing field, leaving traditional hull users feeling like easy targets.

I disagree with 1 and 4 because of reasons outlined above.
I think number 2 is irrelevant in context of Tanki Online. If you care about "Tanki Identity", that's precisely what Tanki Classic is for.
As for number 3, hover hulls are neither "P" (they cost the same as tracked hulls), nor "W" (they do not give a winning advantage).

Even if hover hulls do give an advantage, balance changes are the only realistic option here. Putting them into separated battles or removing them outright is absolutely not gonna happen.
Can you explain what you think needs to be nerfed to make them on par with tracked hulls?

[krokorok 873]

On 2/6/2025 at 8:28 AM, Maf said:

Is it a significant edge though? If this was a few years ago when Hopper was first added, then I'd agree with you. But since then hover hulls' agility got nerfed, so now their power, acceleration and strafing ability is way less than it used to be. I play with both hovers and tracked hulls and I wouldn't say there's much of a difference between them. If there was, then 99% of players would be using hovers these days as it would be the meta.

Uhm yes it is, lol! And you definitely dont have to go years back to see it. Hopper era was definitely trash, and is either a sign of incompetence or ignorance for the sake of squeezing money out of it. But even after Hopper got nerfed. it is easy to see how extremely dominant a few selected hulls are/were. I will say that I havent played Tanki the last month or so, so I dont know how much the changes affected the hovering hulls in recent weeks, but it is very easy to see the results of battles in MM. Before my inactivity period, I played daily for over 4 months, and it was evident that the top 3 were almost always hugged by the same type of combinations Crusader/Defender/Hyperion/Lifeguard/Blaster/any turret with new or currently broken augment u can imagine.

Before Crusader, Paladin was dominating everywhere and even thought Ares probably never had any significant era of absolute dominance, it established itself as the best heavy hull. Hovering hulls are just way too advantageous and pushed many other hulls down. The battle compositions and stats of players with these hulls talk for themselves. Strafing itself is very powerful along with other advantages previously mentioned here, just as well as the fact that hovering hulls have some of the best ODs currently. The only competition that remains to these are Viking which still has a really good OD and somehow still retained its popularity from the old era of Tanki and possibly Hunter which also has good stats and good OD.

Light hulls are mostly a joke these days. You can sometimes run into some good bombing Wasp or a competent Hornet with Supercharge and Radar help, but they definitely are scarce. Also their good results tend to not really depend as much on the power of the hull but more on their shoot-and-hide tactics and good augments (for example a lot of good performing Hornets I saw simply performed well because of using Railguns Destab or Hyperspeeds on advantageous maps rather because of exploiting their hull parameters and ODs).

Dictator has been a meme for as long as I remember. The only time of dominance it had was the era in which it was able to abuse its OD sharing in Assault, and since then it has been overnerfed and relegated to special Gold hunting modes without ODs enabled (because even the one Goldhunting niche it had has been overtaken by Hopper) and very occasional Supercharge wannabe abusers with Vulcan, Twins and other nonsense with good crit damage and firing rate. It already suffers from way too large hitbox and weird clunkyness.

Heavy hulls seem to be even worse, Titan is a sitting duck whose OD can be easily counteracted by many other ODs and even if you dont have OD active or your hull does not match well into it, it still be oftentimes simply "waited out" because the player cant really step outside of it or move it in anyway. Mammoth also seems to not be that great a lot of people can outrun it, dodge it or destroy it with OP equipment, and from what I saw from players complaining the popular Blaster also hindered it significantly.

I believe people provided pretty strong arguments here against hovering hulls. I am not gonna say tracked hulls cant dominate and perform well in battles, but I believe the general consensus and peoples experience in MM tends to heavily favor hovering hulls in most aspects.

[Hypersomnia 1,739]

On 2/6/2025 at 9:28 AM, Maf said:

s it a significant edge though? If this was a few years ago when Hopper was first added, then I'd agree with you. But since then hover hulls' agility got nerfed, so now their power, acceleration and strafing ability is way less than it used to be.

Maf my GOAT do you play the game with your eyes closed?
just because its not 100/10 OP but 50/10 OP doesn't mean its now balanced in any way.

 

On 2/6/2025 at 9:28 AM, Maf said:

I play with both hovers and tracked hulls and I wouldn't say there's much of a difference between

I play with both too and im not even for a second gonna pretend that they're similar. I feel greater increase in advantage than using META exotic augment. Absurd.

 

On 2/6/2025 at 9:28 AM, Maf said:

then 99% of players would be using hovers these days as it would be the meta.

every 'meta tryhard' is using lifeguard crusader. 

I have max garage with all the big boy toys yet I use actual tank 99% of the time. why is that? I play game for fun and not to sweat my life away and using flying trash also feels like im literally hacking. IT GIVES YOU SO MUCH ADVANTAGE IT LITERALLY FEELS LIKE IM USING SOME LOW LEVEL HACKS. I can close my eyes when Exotic augment with 0,00000000000000001% drop rate does that but when a 'free' item does it? Pathetic balancing.

On 2/6/2025 at 9:28 AM, Maf said:

Can you explain what you think needs to be nerfed to make them on par with tracked hulls?

Maf... MAF!!!! OPEN YOUR EYES when you play the game!!!!
overdrives

strafe completely getting destroyed

whatever makes it so they actually take impact force

removing the ability to 'drive' in mid air. especially on hopper

make the hitbox the actual size of the tank and not smaller (as pointed out by someone in this forum)

and like 5 more things im sure im forgetting.

[Maf 32,328]

On 2/6/2025 at 2:01 PM, Hypersomnia said:

I feel greater increase in advantage than using META exotic augment.

That's completely unrelated to the core differences between tracked and hover hulls. All hulls have the same augments.

On 2/6/2025 at 2:01 PM, Hypersomnia said:

every 'meta tryhard' is using lifeguard crusader. 

Are you confusing Crusader and Paladin? If not, then why is Crusader considerd OP all of a sudden?

 

On 2/6/2025 at 2:01 PM, Hypersomnia said:

I have max garage with all the big boy toys yet I use actual tank 99% of the time. why is that? I play game for fun and not to sweat my life away and using flying trash also feels like im literally hacking. IT GIVES YOU SO MUCH ADVANTAGE IT LITERALLY FEELS LIKE IM USING SOME LOW LEVEL HACKS. I can close my eyes when Exotic augment with 0,00000000000000001% drop rate does that but when a 'free' item does it? Pathetic balancing.

overdrives

strafe completely getting destroyed

whatever makes it so they actually take impact force

removing the ability to 'drive' in mid air. especially on hopper

make the hitbox the actual size of the tank and not smaller (as pointed out by someone in this forum)

and like 5 more things im sure im forgetting.

Ok so, overdrives are not related to the the actual concept of hover hulls. Devs could easily take, say, Paladin's overdrive and stick it onto Hunter.

• Strafe - sure, that's an advantage.
• Impact force - sure, although I'm not sure how big of an advantage it is.
• Driving in mid-air - sure, valid point. Although it's funny that you point out Hopper, because the 2021 (or 2022) stability changes made it almost impossible to control Hopper mid-air, to the point where it's actually harder to not flip with Hopper compared to a tracked hull.
• Hitbox - disagree. The hitboxes aren't intentionally smaller, but they're cuboids for all hulls. This means that hulls like Crusader and Paladin have an odd shape, so their hitbox is an approximation of their shape. Crusader's is smaller than the hull model along the edges, but bigger in the corners. I think it's fine.

Idk man, I feel like you're exaggerating. I refuse to believe that hover hulls give such a massive advantage just from their ability to strafe. 

Also, I'm not sure which "5 more things" you're have in mind, but what you're definitely forgtting are the disadvantages of hover hulls. At the very least:

• Terrible uphill power
• Worse acceleration and pushing power
• Terrible hull rotation rate

Don't underestimate these stats. They make hover hulls feel sluggish to a point where the mid-air control and strafing ability don't compensate for it.

[JustBlackWolf 885]

Pushing power as disadvantage? Please Maf, phasing through hulls like you were using a hack and having a full self-stabilizing mechanics when going over uneven terrain is already enough to make them superior to tracked hulls which can flip at the slightest of bumps, or even get stuck, because the physics is good i guess?

Pushing power has meant absolutely nothing for years now, it was only worth considering as stat for when you needed to pick a hull to push away people from under a gold box.

You're also forgetting hovering hulls being completely immune to being frozen, since your hull turns with your mouse because it follows the turret, having the turret frozen doesn't matter at all when you can rotate 180 degrees to shoot back while continuing to move away from the freeze at the same momentum, now imagine it with trickster.

Being immune to impact force is a massive deal since it is impossible to make your opponent miss or even cause them to drive into walls, it really just feels like playing against hackers.

Years ago we joked about the UFO shaped hull bait actually existing, would have never imagined it to become reality in one of the worst possible ways.

 

[Mr.Blitz 59]

On 2/6/2025 at 8:28 AM, Maf said:

I disagree with 1 and 4 because of reasons outlined above.
I think number 2 is irrelevant in context of Tanki Online. If you care about "Tanki Identity", that's precisely what Tanki Classic is for.
As for number 3, hover hulls are neither "P" (they cost the same as tracked hulls), nor "W" (they do not give a winning advantage).

Even if hover hulls do give an advantage, balance changes are the only realistic option here. Putting them into separated battles or removing them outright is absolutely not gonna happen.
Can you explain what you think needs to be nerfed to make them on par with tracked hulls?

So let me get this straight.. you’re telling me that hover hulls don’t provide a significant edge, yet I consistently see higher-ranked players zooming around like UFOs, tanking shots that would cripple a traditional hull, and outmaneuvering everything on the battlefield? You claim agility was nerfed, yet they’re still able to strafe, reposition, and dodge with far more efficiency than anything on tracks. I don’t know what game you’re playing, but in actual matches, the difference is undeniable.

Now, let's break down your rebuttal..

1. You conveniently ignore how hover hulls' strafing and agility let them mitigate damage in ways tracked hulls never could. The fact that I have to work twice as hard to land shots while they effortlessly glide around proves my point. On top of that, hover hulls can elevate themselves much higher than traditional hulls, allowing them to reach areas normal tanks simply cannot access. Classic hulls can’t casually drive onto rooftops or bypass obstacles like mines by floating over them. That alone creates a blatant imbalance in map positioning.
    
2. Your ‘Tanki Classic’ argument is a cop-out. Just because a separate mode exists doesn’t mean the core game should abandon its original mechanics. If the devs wanted to turn this into "Hovercraft Online," they should’ve said so. The entire concept of tactical tank combat is thrown out the window when players can levitate onto rooftops and camp spots that were never meant to be accessible.
    
3. If hover hulls really weren’t a problem, players wouldn’t be feeling like cannon fodder when facing them. The fact that there’s a growing call to separate them shows that the problem is very real. It’s not just about dodging bullets.. it's about hover hull users abusing elevation mechanics to gain unfair advantages over classic tanks.
    
4. You say they "cost the same," yet ignore the reality of matchmaking and microtransactions. The advantage isn't just in owning one, it's in how certain builds, upgrades, and combinations allow paying players to maximize these hulls in ways free players can’t. Not to mention that hover hulls inherently make it easier to survive, reposition, and maintain kill streaks.. something that directly benefits paying players who grind for top-tier builds. Hover hulls are designed to be more resilient, faster, and more agile, which automatically makes it easier to survive and maintain kill streaks. This means that players who invest money can dominate simply because they have a better chance of getting the most out of these hulls.
    

So let me get this straight again.. you’re telling me hover hulls don’t have a significant edge, yet even at their lowest upgrade levels, they already outperform tracked hulls in crucial stats? Fine..
 

• A Hooper hover hull at MK1-0 starts with 9.00 max speed.. that’s its baseline.
  - How much does that increase as you upgrade it?
  - How many classic hulls have that kind of initial speed?
• An Ares hover hull starts with 2000 armor at MK1-0, while a Dictator hull, a tracked tank has only 1500. Is that balance?

And then you say 'balance changes are the only realistic option' while outright dismissing separation? Well, If you admit balance is needed, then you’re already acknowledging the issue. But instead of entertaining an actual solution, you’re shutting it down because... why? Because you personally don’t want to lose your hover advantage?

As for nerfs, fine... If balance adjustments are the only option, then hover hulls need serious nerfs. Reduce their ability to strafe dodge incoming fire, lower their resistance to explosive splash damage, and introduce movement penalties when taking high-damage hits. Additionally, their hover height should be capped to prevent abuse of map elevation, and their speed combined with low inclines shouldn't allow them to bypass mines entirely. Right now, they break core mechanics by avoiding obstacles, mines and terrain restrictions that tracked hulls have to deal with... These mechanics weren’t designed to be optional, yet hover hulls exploit them with ease. 

But I doubt you'll agree, because that would mean acknowledging the advantage you’re clearly enjoying..

From the very start, hover hulls outrun, outmaneuver, and out-tank traditional hulls. So how does this not create an inherent advantage? Are we just supposed to accept that a hover hull user can glide circles around us, take more damage, access high ground that normal hulls can’t, and dodge attacks with ease.. while we struggle to keep up? And what’s worse? These imbalances aren’t just stats on paper. We see it in matches every single day. You know exactly the kind of players I’m talking about.. those overconfident hover hull users who exploit their superior movement, avoid fights until it’s convenient for them, then toy with classic hull users like a cat playing with a mouse. That’s not ‘balanced competition’.. that’s straight-up bullying in gameplay form. 

So tell me, are we supposed to just accept this domination as 'part of the game'? Are we supposed to sit back and watch as these players hover over obstacles, skip over mines, grab golden boxes mid-air, and dance around classic tanks like we’re standing still? At this rate, TO is turning into GTA: San Andreas, where people just levitate, jump over buildings, and laugh at those stuck on the ground.

If that’s the kind of gameplay you’re defending, then I guess fairness is a lost concept for you. But for the rest of us, this isn’t a fair fight.. it’s a mockery. So, either hover hulls get a serious nerf, or they need to be placed in separate battles. Otherwise, this isn’t ‘TO’ anymore.. it’s ‘Hover Online.’

Should such mockery be part of the thin online tradition and environment? 

 

[JustBlackWolf 885]

I don't understand why you'd be comparing Ares (heavy hull) to Dictator (medium hull). You should be comparing it to Titan or Mammoth.

Though if we want to be honest, Titan has one of the most worthless overdrives while Ares just has the Doom's BFG9000 orbital cannon that kills you even if you stare at it the wrong way kek

[Mr.Blitz 59]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:39 PM, JustBlackWolf said:

I don't understand

That is your problem, not mine.

[JustBlackWolf 885]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:45 PM, GhostLynx said:

That is your problem, not mine.

No need to pretend being a bully. If you want to discuss about something you should do it coherently, you compared the health points of a heavy hull to the health points of a medium hull, and said "how is this balanced?". It simply makes no sense and you're just trying to prove your point (which i agree with don't get me wrong) the wrong way. I thought you were more mature than that, i was wrong. Once again, best of luck.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:22 PM, JustBlackWolf said:

Pushing power as disadvantage? Please Maf, phasing through hulls like you were using a hack and having a full self-stabilizing mechanics when going over uneven terrain is already enough to make them superior to tracked hulls which can flip at the slightest of bumps, or even get stuck, because the physics is good i guess?

Pushing power has meant absolutely nothing for years now, it was only worth considering as stat for when you needed to pick a hull to push away people from under a gold box.

You're also forgetting hovering hulls being completely immune to being frozen, since your hull turns with your mouse because it follows the turret, having the turret frozen doesn't matter at all when you can rotate 180 degrees to shoot back while continuing to move away from the freeze at the same momentum, now imagine it with trickster.

Being immune to impact force is a massive deal since it is impossible to make your opponent miss or even cause them to drive into walls, it really just feels like playing against hackers.

Years ago we joked about the UFO shaped hull bait actually existing, would have never imagined it to become reality in one of the worst possible ways.

 

Yes, pushing power is a disadvantage. If i'm with a tracked hull, i can prevent players from scoring the ball, for example, but not when i use a hovering hulls. Phasing through tanks is irritating indeed, but i don't think lowering the floating height could work.

Hovering hulls are not immune to being frozen, though they can manouver more easily, but have really low acceleration, so I don't fell like it's easier to fight freezes with hovering hulls.

Being immune to impact force is not just not true, rather, hovering hulls often flip to minimal impact, like a magnum projectile exploding 15m away.

Same goes for in-air manouvers, a lot of times those end up as a flip (i'm not talking about falling off from  5m). I prefer to be mid air with tracked hulls way more than with hovering hulls, for example, i can safely land with a tracked hull from higway bridges almost all of the time, while with hoverings the success rate is much lower.

 

Personally, i don't care at all about using hovering or tracked hulls, the only thing i think of when choosing a hull for a turret (with a given aug) is the type of the hull (light/medium/heavy) and the overdrive that fits the most for it. And i don't mind to fighting against hoverings nor tracked hulls. In my eyes they are just hulls with different advantages and disadvantages.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 2/6/2025 at 3:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

You conveniently ignore how hover hulls' strafing and agility let them mitigate damage in ways tracked hulls never could. The fact that I have to work twice as hard to land shots while they effortlessly glide around proves my point. On top of that, hover hulls can elevate themselves much higher than traditional hulls, allowing them to reach areas normal tanks simply cannot access. Classic hulls can’t casually drive onto rooftops or bypass obstacles like mines by floating over them. That alone creates a blatant imbalance in map positioning.

Hopping into otherwise unaccessible areas is indeed irritating, i've suggested a change to self destruction areas years ago to fix this. Other than that, elevation can also be a disadvantage, as sometimes they can be hit even of tracked hulls are in cover.

On 2/6/2025 at 3:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

So let me get this straight again.. you’re telling me hover hulls don’t have a significant edge, yet even at their lowest upgrade levels, they already outperform tracked hulls in crucial stats? Fine..
 

• A Hooper hover hull at MK1-0 starts with 9.00 max speed.. that’s its baseline.
  - How much does that increase as you upgrade it?
  - How many classic hulls have that kind of initial speed?
• An Ares hover hull starts with 2000 armor at MK1-0, while a Dictator hull, a tracked tank has only 1500. Is that balance?

Hovering hulls are actually slower than tracked hulls that have the same health, so none of these statements make any sense.

 

On 2/6/2025 at 3:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

Should such mockery be part of the thin online tradition and environment? 

This video is more than 2 years ago, so it's not relevant as many changes has happened to hovering hulls since then.

[Maf 32,328]

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

I consistently see higher-ranked players zooming around like UFOs

Maybe you're right that there is significant preference for hover hulls, but I can't say I noticed it. I see plenty using Hornet, Viking and Hunter too. Without actual data, this could just be psychological bias on your part.

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

tanking shots that would cripple a traditional hull

Tracked and hover hulls have the same protection, so I don't understand what you mean by this.

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

On top of that, hover hulls can elevate themselves much higher than traditional hulls, allowing them to reach areas normal tanks simply cannot access.

Huh? Hover hulls now float much lower than they used to. The height advantage is hardly noticeable, otherwise people would switch to hover hulls in no-OD gold box events instead of Dictator. And which areas are you talking about? @mjmj5558 Hopper OD doesn't count since we're talking about hover hulls as a whole.

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

bypass obstacles like mines by floating over them

Hover hulls blow up on mines, and both types can jump over mines on uneven terrain. What are you talking about?

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

Just because a separate mode exists doesn’t mean the core game should abandon its original mechanics.

That's not how game development works. Don't forget that hover hulls were a necessary addition because they work best for mobile devices, so not adding them would mean losing a bunch of potential new (mobile) players. Also, the original mechanics weren't abandoned - tracked hulls are still in the game.

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

The fact that I have to work twice as hard to land shots 
[...]

If hover hulls really weren’t a problem, players wouldn’t be feeling like cannon fodder when facing them.

Seems like you're just projecting. Have you tried aiming better?

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

yet even at their lowest upgrade levels, they already outperform tracked hulls in crucial stats?

There's good reasons for this which I won't get into. Besides, in the endgame they're on a similar level, and that's what matters. You yourself keep referencing high-ranked players, so why talk about what happens on low ranks?

On 2/6/2025 at 6:30 PM, GhostLynx said:

But I doubt you'll agree, because that would mean acknowledging the advantage you’re clearly enjoying..

Dude, I main Hunter.

 

Anyhow, the rest of your post seems to be just repeating in different ways that hover hulls are extremely OP. I still don't understand why, and I'm not gonna try and convince you otherwise so... agree to disagree.

[Maf 32,328]

On 2/6/2025 at 6:22 PM, JustBlackWolf said:

Pushing power as disadvantage? Please Maf, phasing through hulls like you were using a hack and having a full self-stabilizing mechanics when going over uneven terrain is already enough to make them superior to tracked hulls which can flip at the slightest of bumps, or even get stuck, because the physics is good i guess?

Pushing power has meant absolutely nothing for years now, it was only worth considering as stat for when you needed to pick a hull to push away people from under a gold box.

You're also forgetting hovering hulls being completely immune to being frozen, since your hull turns with your mouse because it follows the turret, having the turret frozen doesn't matter at all when you can rotate 180 degrees to shoot back while continuing to move away from the freeze at the same momentum, now imagine it with trickster.

Being immune to impact force is a massive deal since it is impossible to make your opponent miss or even cause them to drive into walls, it really just feels like playing against hackers.

 

Aren't tracked hulls able to phase through hover hulls just as easily? This advantage goes both ways.

As for freezing and impact force resistance - those are both valid points, agreed.

 

On 2/6/2025 at 7:19 PM, mjmj5558 said:

This video is more than 2 years ago, so it's not relevant as many changes has happened to hovering hulls since then.

I think this version of Hopper still exists and gets added for special events, but since the events are hopper only, it makes no sense to discuss hopper's advantage, since everyone is using it.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 2/6/2025 at 4:30 PM, Maf said:

I think this version of Hopper still exists and gets added for special events, but since the events are hopper only, it makes no sense to discuss hopper's advantage, since everyone is using it.

Yep, they added the 'original' version of hopper to special event modes where you're supposed to use it in mid-air. Nevertheless, the clips in that video don't represent the current (MM) state of hovering hulls.

[Mr.Blitz 59]

On 2/6/2025 at 4:19 PM, mjmj5558 said:

This video is more than 2 years ago, so it's not relevant as many changes has happened to hovering hulls since then.

It doesn't matter at all how old the video is, the point is to show the difference between floating hulls and tracked hulls.. This looks more like star wars and some circus than the game we are all used to, and therefore it is clear that more real players use tracked hulls..