I don't get it. Would you mind to explain why the Battle! thing should prevent multing? Due to the 2 min. pause and the removal of 30 and 60 min. battles there might be fewer mults tho. But that doesn't prevent people from playing with M0/M1 in M3+ battles or starting players that still have

I doubt that Tanki can work properly, if the player base only consisted out of buyers. The buyers would get less earnings out of every $ they put into the game and it would put more and more pressure on each one to pay more $. Having a small player base is always risky and the player base would get even smaller, because more pressure to buy means in general less players in the long term.

Same for me, I bought also the medic kit a short while before the update and already had it on 18 MUs by then. It's catching dust as I barely use it anymore. Same with my Shaft, though I didn't really tested it after the update, but it was sufficient to read about what others posted about it... My garage feels like half emptied.

Yeah, right. Oh yes I forgot the drug bonus for kits, well that's quite a plus.

Prometheus was available before the paint/module separation update (afaik). Ok, but what does it help to compare it to old prices? I cannot buy for the old prices, so I have to decide if a kit or a single item is more efficient. So in this case it shows, that even if I bring up a huge crys sum for a kit, it is not as efficient as buying single items (as long as I know for sure, I won't buy paints for (nearly) half a million crys, which I am). I estimate that, most of the kits have a higher absolute price than before (+8 to +12%). I can't recall, if I have seen a kit yet, that was lower after the update. I know, that the relative discount tag is sometimes now higher for kits than before the update. The kits often have very expensive paints in them now and it happens to be those kits with equipment that could only be accessed very late in the game in the past. However, in general the higher prices of the paints still have a higher weight than the higher discount tags on the kit's price. Yes, the module protection offer a higher standard amounts of protection % (105). On the one side, the update made it a bit cheaper to get i.e. in sum 100 % protection, but on the other side 100 % protection is more valuable, if it's spread among protections against more different turrets (4 instead of 3).

Buying product sets doesn't make much sense to me anymore, mainly because of the extreme prices for the worthless paints. The set "Prometheus" for example (232k M3 firebird + 200k M3 Hunter + 250k Badger T-F M3 + 500k Zeus paint) has a 60% discount tag, but in fact it is only 31 %, if I ignore the worthless paint. The range of other selectable sets gets significantly further narrowed, because I already have M3 Wiking. So it's better to save up crystals and wait for a 40% or 50% discount on weapons (maybe on Christmas).

He probably meant one-shotting in one clip. With 2 DD shots an M3 Wiking is dead, which is nearly instant killing (less than 4 seconds).

For me it's the same. I don't like 1v1 at all. Also I would expect that you will have a better protection for Thunder than I have for Smoky and in a 1v1 a Smoky is in general superior to Thunder. It also depends on the MU levels... my Wiking is at 26/50 and my Thunder at 25/50.

1) Railgun - before the update they were my favourite prey, because I usually could shoot them nearly twice till they reloaded again and they lost a lot. But now due to the rapid fire they are quite a problem. I guess I would have to get the alteration, if I want to counter them properly. 2) Any short-range gun - in general I fight off some of them by mines and retreating. But anyway these are my main enemies, since I use Thunder in an active driving around and offensive way, and I don't have so much distance. 3) Thunder - i kill myself sometimes, especially when the mid- and short rangers come up close and they don't do so much damage like mine. Well this relates to Thunder kill-steal capabilites... I would estimate that maybe 15% of my deaths are selfkills, I carry nearly all the time Thunder protection. 4) Shaft - they are a match, but if you are able to sneak a bit, then you can get them before the laser reaches you :ph34r: 5) Situational turret based upon map - in a standoff vs. a Smoky I lose in general. The thing is that Thunder shouldn't aim so much for single tanks, but attack a whole group. Rico is one of the biggest dangers, because of its fast killing capabilities. Luckily people most of the time use it on light hulls, which let me kill them in 2-3 shots.

@Cedric Can you give us a rough estimation till when the Devs will hand-over updated values to the wiki editors, so that we are able to compare weapons again? The parameter values of the wiki that are published in the wiki right now, does not fit to the in-game experience, they only can give an approximate direction at the moment. There is also a new damage model needed to explain the game mechanics right now, the wiki is simply outdated in this regard. You can see this as well at the damage counter of Thunder or Smoky's critical shot. Also sometimes there are simply false values in the wiki (i.e. weak damage for Rico & Twins) or a wrong naming (i.e. Thunder's "Splash Damage" entry, which is an impact force parameter). I am pretty sure, that these errors were already in the data that was handed-over to the wiki editors. So what I would ask for, is that the real in-game experience fit to the "official" wiki parameters again.

Well that seems to be what the wiki is saying. However, my in-game experience tells me that the critical shot is around +30%.

I was playing against a Smoky among others and he was probably an M4. He got the alteration equipped and that thing is so sick now. I couldn't aim for a moment each time he hit my Wiking M3 25/50, no matter where.

Seriously? Have they described it, somewhere? If it is like that, why do they bother to make a free text field and not some radio buttons for selection?

Wow really?! That would be funny, if it wasn't so bad :wacko: Yeah, they are indeed very similar to each other, tho the reload is only nearly the same when the Thunder alteration is equipped.

Ah alright, thank you! So in a small map a Dictator+Freeze/Fire combo might be a better option in order to spray above other tanks? Well ok we have to consider that circling tanks may be better with freeze and Dict is worse for this than lighter tanks...

Does somebody know, if the new shielding aspect of the Freeze/Fire splash takes the height into account? There come two scenarios into my mind: 1) Two tanks are stacked on one another (i.e. for a GB catch). The upper tank is smaller than the lower and in the mid of the lower tank. A Freeze/Fire approaches them and attacks. Will the upper tank get hit by the fire? 2) A freeze/fire approaches two tanks. The one directly in front of the freeze is a Wiking crossways and behind him is a Dictator. Will the Dictator get hit? I would assume that, that in 1) he will get hit and in 2) not. What would you think?

I expected a nerf too, but they already changed the majority of the alterations, but kept the parameter of the fire alteration. So I guess they will keep it like it is for a while. I tested the Twins alteration once in the test server and I think Rio is a perfect map for it. It feels like a double-barreled Rico.

I don't know if Thunder is the 2nd most used turret (after rail) throughout the game, but in higher ranks it definitely is. The "med kits" were before my time, and I don't know nothing about them, but yes it might be a reason for the big Thunder distribution. Another reason is that, Thunder has been for a long time one of the earliest available M3 turrets. So do you mean this fun- and uniqueness-killing approach? And you want to make this more holistic, then go on and kill also Thunder's splash... If you want to nerf the splash damage, then as a consequence you need to compensate it, i.e. by buffing Thunder's damage. Here are two approaches to assess the value of the splash damage in total in order to give a direction how big a compensation for the splash would be: 1) If you want to align (or make it equal) to Smoky, you have to take into account that the Splash damage has an additional value of 11% -12% (according to wiki parameters at M3&M4) referring to Thunder's normal damage (tho the value can be slightly reduced since Thunder has a better weak damage). 2) Some rough estimation: My average max.dmg. is about 840 (tho I have a Thunder with an official max.dmg. of 940, making it ~10% weaker). My gameplay experience leads me to consider about every 3rd shot is making together with splash dmg. 110 damage. So in total I get a roughly 10% advantage (referring to max.dmg.). These are just statistical values and it doesn't even consider the by then more or less lost advantages by DD + splash, which potentiates it's value. But I don't consider myself so much as a drugger, so I leave this here. So if you want to reduce the splash only on the sides & front, then there would be an additional need to compensate, since a bigger share of the splash damage will be applied on its own tank in future. The probability that enemies will get hit is reduced, while the probability hit himself is the same. Are you considering the ranges here? Because Freeze and Fire can deal way more damage than Thunder. The primary effect of at least the Freeze has not been the splash damage (which is the case at Thunder), but the freeze effect. Fire has... well had the afterburn too. Yes, ofc there are these weapon biases, but if I see a better weapon, I will start to think what to do in case mine is bad. I am pretty sure, that I will stop investing crystals in Thunder when TO will implement this change (at least with no compensation), because there are/will be better turrets available out there, i.e. Hammer M3, which btw could also be used to kill multiple tanks. It can as well be played about like Thunder, when equipped with its M1 alteration, making it to a good substitute to Thunder.

Thunder is a range gun and freeze/fire are melee weapons. This change to Thunder's splash would then be about the same, what they did to Smoky's critical shot. It's removed... nah not removed, since there is an overall difference of 2 % to being removed...

I can fully understand you and thank you for your answer. (btw maybe a private message would have been good in this case to avoid the ban ;)) The damage counter thing itself is quite nice, but it makes it transparent, that there are a lot of problems in the game mechanics. Shaft sometimes doesn't inflict damage when they're in snipe mode Vulcan's fire burst sometimes doesn't inflict damage Thunder's damage is not fully aligned to wiki parameters Thunder's hit makes no damage, when you are dying in about the same moment The standard damage model of the wiki cannot be applied anymore Fire afterburn parameters differ from wiki Also why is there a weak damage in the wiki for short-range turrets (i.e. Twins & Rico), when they still don't make damage beyond their range? Some things I want to point out in general to this update: The developers said, that their aim of this update was to make the turrets and hulls more standardized and more aligned to each other. IMO this is already the main problem. Why would you want to reduce the differences between the garage items?? This kills the uniqueness of the equipment items. It's just these things that made the single turrets unique and remarkable and which made up their character. Smoky is now very similar to Thunder (i.e. same ranges) and the critical shot is more or less removed Isida's self healing is practically removed and healing team mates is even worse than the damage output Shaft's snipe mode nerfed & more bugs in it and no penetration power anymore Twins impact force & reloading time nerfed (not just by single parameters, but overall perception) Freeze & Fire splash damage removed Freeze & Fire aligned to each other (i.e. same damage, rotation and range at M3 & M4) Fire afterburn is practically removed Railgun's hiding for long-reload and deadly ambush tactics are now negligible. It's reload feels like sustained rate of fire and resembles to Thunder's reload. It's like that, when you go through the Turrets list, both the advantages and the disadvantages are mostly less strong compared to the prebalance time, making it to some unified thingies. The list could continue with the hulls, with Hornet's drift, Wasp's speed and Mammoth's HPs, etc... but here it gets even worse and I think you got my point. Of course it might be easier to balance things out, if everything is working nearly the same. But they could have reached a proper balance instead by making some pinpoint changes, which wouldn't have a bigger effect on the diversity and fun factor of the overall gameplay. So better strengthen the unique attributes and reduce the standards, like boost Smoky's critical shot or Fire's afterburn and reduce their normal damage. BTW if I were with the developers and would go this way of conforming and changing everything, I probably wouldn't have reduced a lot of parameters, but rather buffed a lot of parameters, because people have a greater fear of losing something, than to value gains (loss aversion).

Isida not necessarily :D

Which M1 is the best then? I thought Thunder is the best :P

This is very interesting. Do you also know the values for the Fire alteration? Edit: Does somebody know how big the time frame is, between the thunder hit graphics appear on the enemy tank and the point in time when the thunder hit will be counted by the damage counter? I ask because, sometimes I hit a tank with thunder and at the same time I am dying, but my hit will not be counted.

So is a Thunder alteration worse than a standard Thunder in DM, then?

It was nerfed by 1) taking away its penetration power on last update on Friday 2) the Freeze effect parameter was recently set back to prebalance condition again