I noticed that the ranges of Smoky and Thunder will be exactly the same after the update and this led me to compare Smoky with Thunder a bit more detailed (all values are after rebalance). These two midfield weapons will become significantly more similar in my opinion. However, Smoky has the critical shot, whereas Thunder has splash damage. Smoky used to have the better impact force, but Thunder will have a better one afterwards. I calculated the damages per second, for Smoky without and with critical damage, with the assumptions, that every fifth shot will be a critical hit and criticals won't have dmg. decrease on far distances. Considering that Smoky should be better in a 1v1 direct shootout, I think his damage will be quite low, since Thunder still has splash damage, which I've not included in here.

Is there a damage decrease for the critical shot when you hit a distant tank?

Do we have any information at all, when the next batch of alteration will be released? I mean it would be really helpful for planning to buy items if we know that it will take only some more days or some more months.

Can you enlighten me, what DPM and TTK means? Thank you :)

Well if you want to test it out, you can rent it for $1 a week. Yes I know, you have to buy then... It would be really cool of TO, if we can rent an alteration by trading in a Goldbox from your garage (also $1).

Nerfing the impact force of Rico goes along with an impact force nerf for several other weapons like Twins, Hammer, Vulcan, Railgun and Smoky and this relates to the lesser weight of most of the hulls. So it is not as bad as it might look at first glance.

The higher impact does make a difference. You can see the difference between those two in this sequence here (sorry it's only German). After the rebalance, on the one hand the impact force of Smoky will be a bit nerfed, on the other hand most of the hulls' weight will be reduced also. It also depends on how the enemy's hull are positioned towards you and how well you can hit the outer corner. So it's hard or nearly impossible to tell, which exact impact it will have on each turret.

Hmm... I just checked the Global Balance Wiki page and it is clear in stating the same as you said. However, I tested Freeze also with its alteration on the test server when it was open and I can confirm that the Freeze effect is more or less gone with the new balance update. So my game experience doesn't match to the wiki page at all and I was pretty disappointed. Here are also some other opinions on the freeze effect.

I think it's actually the opposite, the full freeze effect is cut down to a third of the original. Freeze does some decent damage, but it doesn't really freeze the tanks anymore, as we knew it.

Rico needed a nerf somehow because i.e. the impact force was too strong imho. The vulcan got a way stronger nerf at the impact force, yet it doesn't mean the Vulcan is not OP anymore. You are right, the normal Rico is for close-range attacks. You also have the option to use Rico as a mid-range weapon, when you equip the Rico alteration. With the balance update Rico will get a higher max. Damage and will get a weak damage of a quarter of the max. damage. So the Rico shots won't disappear anymore after reaching the range of minimum damage. This is relevant for long ranges and it will be a plus for the Rico alteration, so you can be sure it will hit the enemy as long as you aimed properly. The alteration also let your shots have a high projectile speed, you can compensate the nerf on this parameter then (at the cost of slower shooting tho). I expect that you can let your Rico alteration can bounce your shots a couple of times at the walls with the extended range before hitting the enemy.

Thanks a lot for adding! Tho I hope your spelling wasn't intended and it wasn't too painful to read my post :D

So in short for a ranking that considers the benefits and the costs, I recommend it like this: Fire Twins Hammer Thunder Rico Vulcan Railgun Freeze Shaft Smoky Isida It may be essential to possess the Railgun alteration for the format battles after the rebalance to kill the risk of needing 3 shots for hornet tho. Number 3 and 4 are very close together. Anyway, it's just my point of view, but it may give some orientation.

Yeah right, I forgot to mention the Thunder alteration :huh: :P I just used it for a short period on the test server, but it's a really interesting alteration. You shoot really fast with it and it often gives you the opportunity to hit your enemy once more, when he tries to hide from you. So in general you are able to hit your opponent twice, once he gets out of the cover and again when he wants to cover again after his shot. Another advantage is that other players don't expect this fast fire rate from a thunder. If you want to compare the damage output between the standard version of Thunder with the Thunder alteration, I think that the "damage per second" is a good measure, because the alteration trades fire rate for damage. I did some calculations to compare Thunder with its alteration and you can look it up here. I hope I made no calc errors tho :-) The new dmg numbers were divided by ten to the old system and ignore all the commas in there and replace them by dots please (I was too lazy to switch my excel options for this). So you see that the alteration does a bit more damage in a direct shootout than the standard. You can also see that the damage output (considering reload time and damage) for M3 standard was improved and for M4 standard was lowered through the balance update. Another very important advantage of the thunder alteration is, that you can shoot a railgun tank twice, while he can shoot you only once (on all M levels). This way it will work in the rebalance and you can even more outperform the railgun reload time before the balance update is through (you can fire 2,65-2,75 shots while railgun shot you once). I considered here the total reload time (incl. delay railgun time to shot). You can also nearly compete with the hammer reload time (if he's loading his empty mag, you can even shoot twice in the meantime, when you both are M4). When you use the alteration you are also not in such a bad situation when you miss one shot as with the standard. There still might be some cases, when you just have a small timeframe to shoot (i.e. when someone can cover well), so then the standard thunder will be better. But I think they will be minor and if I had to choose, I'd equip the alteration on my tank. There is still the question, when is the best point in time to buy it. Because it is quite expensive I would go for it after you have done a bunch of MUs on your M3 thunder, so maybe after 30/50.

I don't think the railgun alteration is worth the 100k price, because the main focus of it is just to stabilize the damage impact. I don't really know in which tactic or play style this can be useful to make a difference. Though it can be possible that the effective overall damage with the alteration is slightly higher. If you are interested in some hints for the other alterations, then view my post in the link please.

I tested the alterations on the test server, some more and some less, together with the new game balance and here is my opinion (all weapons on M3 with 0/50) on them: Fire - Definitively recommended to buy, it empties out the charge in about 3 secs and the enemy tanks around are like ladybugs :D It's good to quickly wipe off the bunch of enemy tanks in the CP center at polygon. It's like a Drug tank buster, tho there might be the risk that it gets nerfed again. Freeze - Range is quite good and there is the possibility to freeze multiple tanks, when they are in line to you, but considering that the freeze effect (due to rebalance) is more or less gone, it appears when your charge is about to be empty, I wouldn't buy Freeze at all imho. Isida - the cutdown of the range is ridiculous and doesn't weigh up the easier aiming. Most senseless alteration yet. Hammer - You are able to hit targets that are pretty far away, but you have to be sure that you aimed properly before. Disadvantage of slower turning is in close combat obvious. Anyway, I prefer the alteration over the standard version. Twins - After the fire alteration the best alteration, since it makes it to a weapon with a different gameplay. You shoot less shots, but since they are faster, you hit the target much easier, even if the enemies are far away. I would recommend to buy it, especially because it's only 50k. In Polygon/Island/Arena battles the standard version is probably better though. Rico - The changes are exactly the same as the alteration for Twins. Longer Range (of min. damage) with less but faster shots. I think the negative aspect of shooting less shots is more noticeable than at the Twins alt., because the Twins' standard shooting rate is really high. I think players that are used to Rico will continue to play with the standard and its active and attacking play style. Smoky - More impact force but no criticals. I think this is something for specialists, that are always able to turn the enemy's turret right. I prefer the standard with more damage and faster combat/kills. Vulcan - Fast horizontal turret turning let's you battle with vulcan in an active combat style, preferably with lighter hulls than the standard version. With lighter hulls you can compensate easier for the disadvantage of not being able to shoot on another terrain platform next to you (only far away). You can get tanks much quicker that pass around you. In a normal game with different platform levels I'd still stick to the standard. Railgun - I cannot say much about this one, but nothing negative here. It seems that the alteration is slightly better, but I don't think it's worth to spent 100k for this change. Shaft - It is good for campers, that can especially benefit from one-shotting tanks (with or without drugs), which might not be possible with the standard. When shafting, I am rather an active shafter with changing position and a lot of kill traffic, etc.. so the standard is my option.

How does it make sense to open the testserver, without being able to test the weapons and hulls? :rolleyes: :huh:

I just checked the change tables... I really don't know why they tell a different story in the Vlog, than what we can read in the tables, especially in regards to isida. - Nerf for Isida looking alone on the parameters + combine this with a 100k price push - Vulcan costs more than before - Wiking M3 and M4 is now faster than Hunter - What I found interesting: Freeze got a massive boost - The tank groupings in light-, mid- and heavy, doesn't make any sense at all. Imho this will strongly reduce the variety of hull usage, since the players will nearly only use the tank of each group with the best combo of speed and hp.

I have some questions regarding the upcoming balance update. There are some things I didn't really understand. Excuse me, that I haven't read the last half of this thread yet. 1) In the Wiki article it says: Ranks aligned to Marshal What does this mean, are they only aligned or are all M3 weapons only available from rank Marshal by then? 2) Weapons that are at the moment accessible from below Marshal become stronger and above Marshal become weaker. Here you are considering the M3 level. When looking on their respective M4 Level, are you considering, that they should be balanced, so be able to compete with each other? Otherwise you practically can ignore some weapons on Gismo level. 3) The mentioned additional changes for hulls are A) less differences regarding speed and hp between tanks and B] the same hp for tanks in the same class. Considering approach B, how can there be enough differentiation (by speed, since other attributes are secondary) between the tanks within one class, if they have the same hp? The main differentiators for me regarding tanks has always been the differentiations in the combination of speed and hp. 4) Why is everybody talking about an Isida Nerf? They said in the Vlog that weapons below Marshal become stronger, and Isida is available from Brigadier on, so wouldn't it become stronger then?! Thanks for answers, especially some from official guys ;)

If you buy the alteration for Rico and afterwards you buy Rico m3, you can also equip your Rico M3 with the alteration you bought before. Edit: Cooper was faster :D

Were the other games you are talking of also for kids?

This is a nice idea and originally would have been the superior way, but imho it has become pretty unrealistic these days.

grge is the search tag for Garage. You can look up Mafioso's system here.

Thank you for gathering all the information here. I don't want to be picky, but I would have preferred, if the red text marked all the disadvantages and the green all the advantages of the alterations, so not just red when a parameter is reduced. I.e. the reduced Vulcan Turret Turning Slowdown would be green instead of red then. Maybe that would help people understand the changes in the alterations better. Well this would be just an alternative approach.

What I've heard so far is, that Fire Alt. is OP and Freeze Alt. is interesting, since it is more like a Freeze ray. What do u guys think of the Shaft Alt.? http://prnt.sc/clh3hx The ability to combine the alterations of one weapon would be also interesting.

Some nice visualisation, that you did there, BlackWasp. I have a different question to the alterations: Will it be possible to equip the weapons with multiple alterations at the same time? I.e. is it possible to have a different color by the M0 alteration and i.e. use another conus angle by the M1 alteration?