I have to correct to noob English: Can all left?

Wow great! Thank you for transferring all these charts :)

Yea indeed :lol: There is always room for interpretation ^^ You can conduct tests yourself, but this is what I experienced in the game tho.

As what I've seen is that there is a 0.5 delay to go into sniping mode, which hinders you to shoot really early, but the 0.5 is part of the 3 sec. normal charge. And the 0.5 after the snipe shot is only (as far as I know) applied when you want to shoot arcade shots directly after the snipe shot. To the 2nd point: I thought you were calculating with M3 (like I did) :D

Hmm I have a bit different results: Shaft alteration (1 max shot is enough) = 6 sec. TTK (1x alt. charge) Shaft combo (1 charge + 0.5 + arcade reload) = 6.24 sec. TTK

What do you mean with terrible? Good for you or for the enemy? :P

It's a bit difficult to talk about this without misunderstandings :P With "fully loaded" I meant "fully reloaded". Reload is different to charge. For the TTK included the charge and reload it takes to kill a tank, but I don't take the reload for the first shot into it. So in case of shaft needing 2 sniper shots, I take the initial 3 sec. charge (to leverage max. damage, which I always take for Sniper mode) + the reload for 2nd shot + charge for 2nd shot. A lot of advice texts say that it doesn't make sense to stay a long time fully charged (in scope mode), so I will follow those. For Shaft combined (1 snipe shot + arcade) it would be 1 x snipe charge + 0.5 sec. delay to leave snipe mode + reload of arcade. For Shaft arcade the only relevant time parameter is the time from shot to shot. The initial shot of rail needs 1.1 sec (as some kind of charge).

That sounds great! I'm curious how to visualize all of this :P Nvm, thank you for confirming it! ;) I can work on the table for the protection effects this evening. By the way, onto Railgun's TTK, which I previously stated we have to add another 1.1 sec because of the delay for the first shot (since it is not part of the first reload). This means Railgun has an average TTK of 9.81 sec. (though it is possible, but pretty improbable, to shoot a medium hull with 2 shots of max. damage). If we wouldn't consider the charge here, then we would also have to reduce the TTK of Vulcan and of the various Shaft turret modes. I considered as a definition for how long does it take to kill a tank that suddenly appears (so you have no preparation but only a fully loaded gun).

Well, yes on the one hand it makes more sense to compare M4 stats because they have the ultimate stats. On the other hand M3 stats can tell more players something about their weapons, because I think there are lot more M3 weapons than M4. So for the purpose of the practical benefit I'd prefer the M3 a bit more, but I am open for further discussions on this. I'd appreciate if you can describe the damage decrease of short-rangers i.e. fire & freeze, because you said that it is working differently, which you might have gained as a result of your tests. I just relied on the wiki stats.

Yes fire and freeze had lost their penetration power on the update of the 28th october.

Alright now I got it :) That's a pretty good approach B) This table will be much smaller then. I will have to check if I can get it done with some automation and/or references to the original turret values.

Ohhh, the Railgun's TTK is indeed incorrect... the correct value should be 8.71 as far I can see it. I will check the TTK values of some other turrets also and upload a new chart, but tomorrow I won't have time for that. There will be then 3 "#of shots" charts and 3 TTK charts :wacko: :lol: Okay we'll go for it :) If I will do the protection thing via a table, then this one will be quite big. Some questions for this: Do you want 1% or 5 % steps? Which turrets do you want? Just the basic ones + shaft arcade or also some alterations? Will it be only a % increase or some kind of increase to reflect MUs?

Fully correct :-)

So would you think that the "# of shots" chart is more important for this than the "TTK" chart? Or are both charts needed? Anyway I can do this in the coming week, because I won't have the time for this this weekend. I will have to think how to visualize the effect of every % protection increase...

Thank you! Oh I did not knew this. In which way is it working then? Yea right, the other ones are kind of slippery and varying. What I meant about Rico (M3 level) is this: a Rico with a full magazine (because it is hindered by the reload per shot time) needs 0,547 sec. for one shot a Rico with an empty magazine (because it is hindered by the energy reload per sec.) needs 1.48 sec. for one shot.

#1 I can do this, I will have to compare the HP of light and heavy hulls to the turret's damage and then make another two TTK charts. Though you can also have an estimation of the damage that is in one magazine with my first chart (though it also takes the reload time for melee turrets into account). #2 I don't think it is possible to quantify the effect of impact force or many other special effects. The Thunder Splash is also very dependent on the use of it. I included Smoky's critical because it was simply possible to calculate effectively, but I can't do this with Thunder, except a standard player will say that i.e. 30 % of the total damage he inflicted, came from Splash. Then I will do it of course ;) BTW if the Rico's mag is empty it takes 1.48 seconds on M3 to shoot one shot :o

Thank you! :D It was quite a piece of work :P Sorry, I misplaced the spoiler in my last post, which left the whole topic to be broken and in a sense closed... When it just talks about Hammer, then it is a full Hammer (=energy amount turret), which means it is 2*shot reload. When you see "Hammer (empty)", then you have 2*shot reload + magazine reload.

The difference is that the reload time includes the constant of the 1,1 sec. (over all M levels) long delay before the shot into it. The reload is the time from shot release to shot release. This means for M2 rail for example: 3.65 sec charge + 1.1 sec delay = 4.75 sec reload.

It looks like we both had about the same idea ;) Though I didn't thought about protections at all. Maybe we can check if there are differences in some numbers.

I have done a series of analyses in the past days. Here are the results in form of a couple of charts. The main purpose of this is to show the differences of the turrets and to compare them better. Have fun :wub: Here you can read the underlying assumptions before This chart shows the damage of the turrets and how long they need to reload and consume their energy to inflict this damage. Those turrets below the trendline are better than the average in terms of the DPM measure. Since Twins can shoot endlessly, I just assumed it is 5 seconds shooting. Associated to this comes the DPM ranking: Here is an overview of the growth in stats regarding the damage per second of each turret. Note, that these are two charts, one shows the growth from M3 to M4 in a % scale and the other goes from M0 to M4 with a factor (that means i.e. Twins M0 DPS * 4 = Twins M4 DPS). This one shows the number of necessary M3 shots to kill an M3 medium hull. Tick damage turrets are rounded as stated before. Following on the number of shots, here is the ranking of the Time to kill performers. I added also several alterations (abbreviated with 'alt.') and differentiated some turrets between this turret with an empty magazine or with a full magazine (standard). Vulcan's starting bullet phase is included, so if you make extensive use of the overheat, you can surely go with 1 sec. less, so with 4.75 sec. And finally here is the chart to show the average damage per second of M3 turrets over all the ranges. I marked alterations in a color similar to the respective standard turret. I only included alterations or turret shooting modes when it made a notable difference over the ranges. Those lines that end somewhere show that they have reached the maximum range and the shots die out. By the way, Vulcan has the same range like Thunder & Smoky and the Rico alteration is the one with the longest maximum range, but is not independent from range though. I hope the chart is still not too complex :D I hope you liked it :P and it triggers some discussions on the game balance or on personal preferences. A note on Rico: I think calculating the Rico values for DPS and all the variations of it was the hardest part (spent around 70 excel rows on it and 20 of them were miscalculations) because it is both an energy amount turret and a reload turret (and it loads while you are shooting). By the way the standard Rico has 12 shots before it needs to wait for further reload and the Rico M1 alteration has 14 shots.

This is indeed a problem in my pov. Until now, it is not removed, but let's wait and see what comes next -.-

It appears to me, that the Devs themselves are not giving the time to the battle button (especially when checking the statistics!) and they released it as well with a not really thoughtout functionality.

Then why do you make these updates in such small steps, that they make no sense when they are separately implemented?

Okay, thank you :) Yes, I think this is the most appropriate way.

How would you guys calculate the damage per second (DPS) measure, especially of turrets that have an energy amount (i.e. Isida, Fire etc...). Would you include their reload time also?