I think the guy you quoted was talking about solo modes (hopefully) :P Oh yes I do, but unfortunately there are not enough battle moderators to have the time to issue temporary bans to these players :( Doesn't happen that often though, but I see it sometimes. And there is just as much chance of players on the enemy team doing the same thing, so it balances out I guess lol.

Hey, no worries - glad if I can help :) I am also a free player (however I improved my Garage greatly under the previous economy, which before the container nerf 2 patches ago offered many more crystals than you can get now, sadly), so I know exactly what it is like trying to compete against buyers as a non-buyer. Well Mammoth is currently quite a strong hull, Ares recently got a buff, so I am not sure which is the best heavy hull overall, but I would say Mammoth might be still the best. It certainly was before the buff to Ares. Paladin, Dictator, Ares and Mammoth are all great hulls for free players - because all these hulls are capable of self-healing, so if you are low on repair kits this is very useful. Dictator is overall probably the best hull for non-buyers, as it also provides you with supplies which helps a lot, if you are either low on supplies or forced to use Brutus drone (I say "probably" the best, because Paladin is currently so powerful, that it is probably overall the best hull, even if you are a free player who is low on supplies). Mammoth is a good hull even if you are using Brutus drone, but there is no doubt that it becomes vastly better with either Trickster or Defender, in most cases Trickster will be the best option. Just to give you an example of how good Mammoth with Trickster is, here is a game I just played with that combo: I scored every single goal for my team - would have got a higher score but the game ended early. Mammoth with Trickster is amazing for capture modes in small maps, and in general it is an all round strong combo. Trickster compensates for Mammoth's slowness, and it also means you have a greatly increased chance to land kills - and will get more kills - during the overdrive, plus you will cover a lot more ground which is useful in capture modes. In addition, in one particular situation Mammoth is the best hull in the game for capture modes - on a small map when the enemy team has put down many mines (and that was the case here). Mammoth can sail over mines without taking any damage, while immune to status effects and killing enemies in its way. You may want Defender instead of Trickster in Siege (as you will need to sit in one place taking shots a lot of the time), or in TDM (where you want a good kill/death ratio) or when using continous damage turrets such as Vulcan/Twins/Cylcone augment striker which require you to be exposed to enemy fire to more often than long-reload turrets, such as Railgun or Shaft. Well, every player in the game should get and max out Brutus to 20/20, as the first thing that they do. It is now very cheap to upgrade (100k), and it doesn't take a long time, so definitely get Brutus and max it out (without buying speed ups, just upgrade on step each day or so). Brutus maxed out will make a big difference, and it won't be much of a saving to skip it. You also absolutely need Brutus when you run out of batteries, which you will. If you want to invest in Trickster or Defender, that will have to come later on. You could choose one of them and start upgrading when you get to a high enough rank to buy them, but definitely for a free player you should probably focus on Brutus and get as many Mk7 kits (with items that you don't already have), as you can once you reach Lieutenant-General, as you will be greatly helped by having Mk7 modules, and a diverse Garage. If I was starting a new account, I would probably get one turret and one hull of each category at Mk7 level (for special missions), and at least 5-6 Mk7 protection modules, before I would consider investing in a drone like Defender or Trickster. Defender is probably the best all-around drone, however Trickster is the overall best for Mammoth - sadly the best drone for each situation is different, and getting them all is expensive, and takes a long time. Good luck tanker :P I thought you had quit somehow but just posted here, my bad. I see you played quite a bit last week :P

Hey @Levi, you are right about team modes - it is against the rules to do it in team modes, and I see players doing it which is very bad indeed However, with regard to solo modes, you are wrong. It is not against the rules to do this in the solo modes, as far as I am aware. I have asked this in Q&A and received an official answer on the matter. You are not sabotaging anyone in the solo modes, since you have no team to sabotage, so as far as I am aware it is not against the game rules.

I very much agree, except I think you are being a little too harsh on EMP Smoky - let's not encourage the developers' worst tendancies, as we know that they are specialists in "fat, vast, humongous nerfs" that make things totally useless - and I have no doubt one is coming. I definitely think EMP Smoky is too strong, but I would like to see it remain viable. I think EMP and AP Smoky should be equalised (just like the Railgun augments were, and also AP/EMP Gauss), and yes EMP is by far the strongest, so it would be nice to see it brought down a bit. But not to the point that it is useless. I would like to see buffs to the Garage smoky augments, but developers don't seem willing to do that kind of thing these days sadly. They seem to be nerfing Garage augments to the ground one-by-one, until only Legendary augments (previously Ultra Container augments) are viable, which I think is very sad, because many of the Garage augments were much more interesting and inventive than the Legendary augments, most of which are just "slap X status effect onto Y turret". Look at what they did to Magnum Mortar, and most recently Shock Freeze for example. Two interesting augments, made utterly useless - while AP Magnum and AP Freeze are still going strong. Definitely would agree on the balance for Stun and AP Smoky, reasonable buff needed for Stun Smoky, and a slight one for AP. Personally I would like to see - EMP Rounds having the same crit chance as Stun Smoky has now (so that it can keep the 5 second EMP, as EMP duration lower than that is useless), AP Rounds buffed to 85% crit damage, Stun Smoky buffed to 85% crit damage and having stock crit rate (now that it has 2 second stun, that would be fine IMO). Garage augments I would also like to see buffs to, but I wouldn't expect the developers to care, sadly. I didn't know AP has the same crit chance as Stock, my bad. To be honest, I don't really have that much experience with AP Smoky - only used it a little recently. But while it is true that AP counters Titan overdrive, I feel that AP and EMP are fairly close in power level, EMP has significant benefits in that it stops repair kit usage (5 seconds is often enough for a kill, or to lead to a kill), disables speed/boosted damage in addition to armor boosts, or defender drone. You can't cut through modules or Titan overdrive, in addition to Boosted Armor and Defender, like AP can, but I think the overall benefits of EMP status effect make it at least equal in power to AP overall. Therefore I think as with Gauss, AP Smoky and EMP Smoky should be roughly similar. I agree with you and Congo, on reflection, EMP Smoky is I guess in need of a nerf - rather than other augments brought up to match its power. I think reducing the crit rate to the level that Stun Smoky currently has would be enough. But I think a slight buff for AP Smoky is also called for, even 85% crit damage instead of 75% would be enough perhaps. As you point out, EMP allows an enemy target to reset their repair kit, so for that reason I think EMP effects really need to be at least 5 seconds to be worthwhile - therefore I don't think reducing EMP Smoky's EMP duration is an option. That's why I would go for crit rate reduction.

Wolverine showing that he doesn't play a lot these days :P It probably seems that Paladin is faster because so many Paladins are using Trickster in capture modes lol (myself included). Also it dominates in capture modes similar to a certain "flying hack", so the comparison to Hopper probably make it easy to believe it is a light hull, lol. I agree with what others have said so far, all hulls have their purpose, although for a free player I would generally say that light hulls might be a bit less viable for players with weaker gear score. A low GS light hull is of course very easily killed (quite possibly even one-shot killed), and also with lower stability a low GS light hull is severely affected by impact force from higher GS opponents. But really all hulls do have their purpose, if you have lower gearscore and weaker drones/augments/modules than buyer opponents, you will be at a disadvantage no matter what hull or hull category you choose, I am afraid. If you are a free player, you probably want to use the most overpowered equipment available to you to stand a good chance in battle. Right now, that means you should probably be using Paladin in capture modes, if you want to do well. Viking or Dictator are both great in non-capture modes (Dictator especially good in Siege, to get points and give your whole team supplies + supercharge). Despite what I said about light hulls, Hornet is very good right now (especially with turrets that have increased critical damage, such as Freeze or Striker), and it is the best light hull overall. For heavy hulls, Mammoth and Ares are both great. So as you can see, many hulls are viable. Drones also change things quite a lot, once you get to high rank. Trickster Drone (or even Defender) makes heavy hulls (and especially Mammoth) much more viable. I would go as far as to say that Mammoth is the most drone-dependant hull in the game. The extra value that you can get from Mammoth's overdrive from Trickster drone is immense, and also having constant, and boosted speed, makes it highly viable for capture modes in small maps. If you want to go for kills, Defender also works well with Mammoth as it allows you to survive for much longer when using your overdrive. So therefore, Mammoth is probably a better hull for buyers or high-rank Legends, as it is significantly less viable without either Trickster or Defender.

I am very much doubting the stated drop rates for the new containers also, personally I have received quite a number of epics, but as for Legendaries.... between my alt accounts and main accounts, from collecting the token of apology containers and containers from other sources, I have now opened over 1500 new containers - and not one Legendary. Now if the chance to get a Legendary is really 1%, we would expect an average of 15 from 1500 containers. To not even get a single one, that is either astonishingly bad luck, or in-fact the drop rates that they have given are false. I would almost certainly have gotten several Legendaries by now with the old containers. I suspect that in fact, the new drop rate for Legendaries is only 0.1%, and not 1% as they claim. The other possibility is that they lowered the Legendary chance for the token of apology containers, which would be a little devious, but would at least mean we can look forward to getting Legendaries more often than I have. Something seems very strange with this, very strange indeed.

Do you think so, hmm? I feel the other augments are undertuned compared with EMP Rounds, Cryo rounds/Adrenaline are probably fine admittedly, but for instance AP only offers 3 seconds status effect vs EMP's 5, while having lower critical damage and critical hit chance. Ditto for Stun smoky, except 2 seconds (though stun is a more powerful effect, but I still think it should be 3 - unless the crit rate and crit damage are buffed), and I think Rubberized Rounds for Smoky seems a bit trash personally. Haven't had a chance to try Explosive Rounds I must say, as I don't have it. Incendiary Rounds might also be OK too I suppose. I definitely think that Stun Smoky and AP Smoky could do with some adjustments to bring them in line with EMP though, like EMP and AP Gauss become closer in power with changes before. Or, EMP could also be nerfed - or both. I feel EMP is far out in front of the other Ultra Container augments for Smoky.

My bro, Smoky is very powerful right now - one of the top turrets. I use it a lot and do very well with it, so it certainly does not need a buff, or it would be highly OP. If you think it is weak, what Mk Level of Smoky are you using, with what augments, and what is your drone/upgrade level? Tell me and I can give you some tips perhaps to help, because you shouldn't be having problems winning with Smoky. However the problems with it are that EMP Rounds is by far the best augment, making the other augments obsolete (pretty boring to have 1 augment far better than the others), and also there is some problem with the critical strike system since the patch. I really dislike the changes the developers have made to Paralyzing Rounds (or intended to make) in the patch. Having critical strike chance be increased by shooting at walls is a weird and un-fun mechanic to me.

Sounds like a good idea, Thunder has been gradually weakened, change by change (most notably with the recent splash damage nerf), while most others have gotten stronger, and has ended up the worst turret. As for the Sledgehammer augment, taking away critical strikes from it (with Thunder's new template), was totally unnecessary. This augment was already so weakened, and now it is a weak augment for a weak turret. It is however an interesting augment, changing Thunder's playstyle - and having a diverse range of augments for each turret that are viable helps keep gameplay fresh and interesting. So I would want to see a buff for Thunder in general of course, but I would also like to see improvements to the Sledgehammer augment. With Thunder in its current state, these might be good changes. Unfortunately, while I would be pleasantly surprised to be wrong, I don't think that there is any planned buff for Thunder :( That would be logical and all (Thunder being the worst turret by far), but since when have the developers been logical? From comments lead developer Opex-Rah has made about Thunder (that it is the "simplest" turret - and I forget what else he said, but didn't sound like he has much interest in Thunder), and the fact it has received nerfs despite already being the worst turret for a long time - I genuinely think he has a dislike for Thunder. So, I am afraid I expect Thunder to be the punch bag of turrets for some time to come. Maybe the developers will finally get some sense into them, and give Thunder the buff that it deserves - but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I agree, Shaft is a turret I've been using quite a bit lately. Very viable turret right now & quite fun to use with the new playstyle. You don't need to wait for a full 10 seconds if you don't fire fully charged shots, and also you can fire arcade shots in between - which are quite strong these days. Shaft is much weaker than before if you just do pure camping from long range - it is very viable as a mid range turret however, if you are moving around the map.

Lol ? Magnum smoky hybrid ? New smoky augment confirmed??

I am glad that they changed every mission to reward Ultra Containers now, giving us 12 Ultras instead of 7 with 5 regular containers as before. Given the nerf to Ultra Containers, and the massive nerf to regular containers - this was important to keep Ultra weekends actually worth completing. However sadly, thanks to the Ultra Container nerf, even 12 Ultras gave me very weak rewards. Thanks to this recent update, even though I have purchased the battle pass (with some of my tankoins from the 2000 tankoins reward), I ran out of batteries, even though I am playing mission/special mission only. This would never have happened under the previous system. My rewards: Also 3,000 crystals and some supplies. Weak. These Ultras gave less than 11 common container rewards, and 1 uncommon reward (old 12 repair kits), would have in the past. And these are Ultra containers, never mind normal containers. My premium is also about to expire, and now that has been totally removed from containers and Ultras too - so soon battle fund and supplies available will even less still. We have a higher chance to get augments, but overall the nerf to supply and crystal income is truly gigantic. Ultra weekends are just about worth it after this change to 12 Ultras - but only just.

I am glad other players agree about Shock Freeze - totally agreed. Shock Freeze was one of the most fun and interesting augments, and now it has been made useless with these changes. The removal of the critical damage, while also removing the increased magazine capacity was too much. Shock Freeze was fine the way it was - Freeze in general just needed a nerf, and then it would be fine. Now it is very far behind the other Freeze augments, and much worse than normal Freeze itself. I do hope they would take another look at Shock Freeze. Compact Fuel Tanks on the other hand has seen some interesting changes - pretty fun augment to use now, as far as I can see.

Interesting info :) I first started playing TO in probably around 2016, although I took a long break and only came back just shortly before we started getting containers from weekly mission chains (so that was 2017/2018? Not quite sure). So Thunder was strong then, though perhaps not the true glory days lol. Wow I can't understand this. Thunder OP in the low ranks, for real? I don't personally think Thunder is OP at any rank, it seems clearly the weakest turret at all ranks. I just recently started a lnew account, so I have current experience at low ranks and at Legend. Striker does what Thunder can do better, in basically every area. Smoky, since its recent buff, is very far ahead of Thunder in power level - it is currently a top turret along with Freeze, Striker, Vulcan and possibly also Tesla. If you consider Thunder to be "in the middle" in terms of balance - that means that there must be quite a few turrets that are currently worse - or at the very least there must be many turrets on an equal power level to Thunder. Can you tell me which turrets you think are, in that case - which turrets are worse than, or equal to Thunder in the current meta? Because I don't know any - Thunder is clearly the weakest. It was weak, and then it got the splash damage nerf, which made it laughably bad. The only turret that was recently on an equally bad level with Thunder was Firebird, but it now seems to have had a significant buff. I haven't had much time to assess the new Firebird, but it seems a lot stronger now. So that means Thunder is now on its own, at the very bottom.

Thunder has so few augments - and no Ultra Container augments - plus it is currently the weakest turret, so that seems bizarre. It is an ideal candidate for new augments, and also for a buff. It genuinely seems to be the case that Opex-Rah hates Thunder. It has received nerfs even when it was underpowered already, and I remember him commenting about it being "the simplest turret" or something along those lines, and all this talk about no new augments planned. I mean, I don't really use Thunder much - but I feel sad for players that like it. Thunder has a great use in the game currently - if you are wanting a challenge you can use it, if you are bored owning with OP augments and turrets ? Genuinely, I like using Thunder currently as my Garage has now become so strong - with Thunder you nerf yourself so much, that it is like having a weak Garage again. For those with maxed out accounts, definitely a great turret to use when you get bored and want a challenge - not joking. But I really think Thunder should cease to become a meme turret, and actually get buffed into a real turret some time soon - it should get much needed new augments, and shot effects too!

So now that this token of apology has disappeared - we are back with the same problem for anyone who didn't collect it (unless developers have now fixed this issue, have they? Assuming the answer is no). Any player that did not log in when the token of apology was available, will potentially get Mk1s from containers when they already may have a higher modification, if they start playing from today onwards - and they won't get more containers to compensate. So, if not done already, surely the developers can add some basic code to fix this. IF a player's account has any modification of a turret (Mk1 to Mk8) they DON'T get the turret in the container reward pool. Surely it can't be that hard to code? Or else, there are going to be many on-going complaints.

Thanks for the advice, but I can't play on mobile and never will - don't play mobile games for various reasons. I know the income is higher, but I will always be a PC player. Yes I know how to manage crystals, but that was in the old days. We are now in a situation where we have no more premium, and also containers have lost 2/3 of their value - rank ups have lost dramatic value, daily missions and battle passes have lost value, and that is just considering crystals - also getting far less supplies. So if you choose to buy supplies as a free player, you could end up with virtually no crystals for upgrades (might do slightly better if you are a mobile player, sure). But generally, they have hit free players/light buyers income far too hard with this patch.

Yep seems like it... well in that case, we take a huge hit to crystal income. Truly dramatic hit, if we have lost 1/2-2/3 of crystal income, and have to buy supplies on top of that. In fact, I don't even think, if you are upgrading, that you will be able to afford to buy supplies also. Considering the fact we have lost premium, a huge amount of crystals from containers, missions and rank-ups. Only someone with an already maxed garage may be able to afford to buy more supplies also - unless you get crystals from another source such as contests/battle pass.

On another topic, I actually think that while the container/mission/rank up changes were extremely bad, the balance changes in this patch were reasonably good (or at least the intention behind them). Tesla nerf was good. Paladin nerf was good (and not too excessive - Paladin is still useful, but easier to kill. Some small changes may still be needed, but a big improvement to Paladin balance). Firebird buff was good. Freeze nerf was necessary (however Freeze and/or Freezing status effect, still needs signficant changes). I didn't like all the balance changes though: The change to Shock Freeze augment was unnecessary. Shock Freeze is one of the most interesting augments in the game - with a general nerf to Freeze, this augment was perfectly fine as it was, there were no changes needed. Removing critical damage from it makes it far too weak, compared to the other Freeze augments, which is bad as - as I saw - Shock Freeze is one of the more interesting and fun augments to use. As I say, what SHOULD have been changed with this augment is that Freeze in general should have been nerfed more - let's say a significant nerf to Freeze critical damage, as well as a reduction in the power of the Freezing status effect (change "removes Boosted damage effect" to "reduces target's rate of fire by 20%") - and then with a general nerf to Freeze, Shock Freeze would have been fine the way it was. As it is, Freeze in general has not been nerfed enough, but Shock Freeze has received an unnecessarily large nerf - when it was not OP when compared to other Freeze augments. The economic changes however - and the effective removal of premium from being obtainable by most players - are highly unfair, and will result in players having not enough supplies to play more than a handful of games. Which is surely very counterproductive for queue times, and very boring.

Thanks for doing the work to post these :) Now that we have the percentages (or claimed percentages for both new and old containers, it is very valuable to have an estimate of the difference in the value of both types of container, as well as a comparison of the changes to average income levels in terms of supplies/crystals, as well as the likelihood of obtaining "imba" Legendary augments. And as expected, the value of containers overall, and the average income levels players will earn in terms of crystals/supplies have fallen dramatically. I am really disappointed about this, as I can already see my supply count going critically low, even when playing missions only - it will not be fun to no longer be able to use the drones I have spent a lot of time, and millions of crystals upgrading, and also to try to compete against heavy buyers with no repair kits or batteries, using Brutus drone. I no longer have the supplies to play a few games for fun after doing missions - this update will seriously hurt the gameplay experience (or "fun") of actually playing Tanki for free players or light buyers - so many are very likely to leave because of these changes. They are free to do whatever they want with the game, but I personally think this is a very bad way to go. The previous system was good - and players who are having fun tend to keep playing - and also therefore, to spend more. Players who quit, won't contribute anything financially to the game again, nor will they be around and playing, to help improve matchmaking queue times. So I don't think this update is in the long-term interests of any category of player, or the developers themselves. Also, the loss of premium (combined with the nerf to rank-up income) is another big hit to income at Legend. Players who played regularly were able to get premium reasonably often, now for free players it will be basically inaccessible - and that will mean battle funds are now halved, while you no longer benefit from reasonably regular 40k crystal bonuses. Overall, crystal income has been hit very hard indeed. And may I once again apologise for the tone of my response to your first post - I must say that I did think it could have been an attempt to distract from the bad aspects of this update (not least because very often, there are positive replies from helpers in the topic about any update, no matter whether all players dislike it, or otherwise). But you have clearly shown yourself with these posts to be giving an unbiased analysis, so thanks :) (And I know some helpers are willing to share negative opinions as well as positive sometimes too - which I respect). This information is very helpful - and clearly explains the consequences of these changes. I hope the developers will take note of players feedback on what they have done with containers, and go some way to reversing these changes. Interesting, I am guessing this happened because of the Legendary augments being added to regular containers. The change to Large Calibre Rounds with Viking is bizarre however - why do they feel the need to reduce it? It seems they really hate this augment, it is pathetically weak in its current form, and nerfing it with Viking as well is just kicking it when it is down. No-one uses an augment that has that much less dps than the stock turret, anyway. The lack of coefficient change on Round Destablisation seems strange. I am very unimpressed that they haven't bothered to fix this. I do still suspect it is a bug, but they simply haven't cared enough to fix it. Even by the developers' logic, I don't see why they would want one specific Railgun augment, and only one, to have no increased damage coefficient during Viking overdrive.

Interesting perspective :) It is cool to have paints which give you an "intimidating" tank, to scare the enemy lol. I do appreciate really cool looking paints too though, even if not intimidating - "intimidating" generally means a paint will have a lot of black or at least dark colours - so if you only ever wear those kind of paints it gets a little dull in my opinion. You can also intimidate the enemy... with your sense of style ? Maybe if you wear paints like Synesthesia, they will be distracted by the beauty of your tank - allowing you to get extra shots off :P I think Synesthesia looks awesome with XT skins, goes so well with the gold. By far the best paint I've found so far to go with Mammoth XT for instance, which many paints don't seem to go well with. I'm in the same position, this battle pass is actually a pretty good one for me - as I also have none of the augments or paints. Mammoth and Striker are also favourites of mine, although I don't know how good AP Striker is relative to other Striker augments - but Striker itself is good, so I'm guessing it is pretty strong. If I choose to play over the next 2 weeks (which I don't know if I will or not), I would definitely consider the pass, however the only downside is that the containers have been so heavily nerfed, so the overall rewards you are getting from the pass are now much less. Although with daily/weekly mission and rank up rewards nerfed also, the relative value of the battle pass in some way remains intact, and the crystals/supplies it offers are more valuable now. I suspect however, with the large backlash, the developers might consider buffing containers again, or buffing the battle pass - and if I bought it this time around and then they did that, I would be a little annoyed.

Well close, but 0.1% is 1 in 1000, and 0.05% is half of that, so it is 1 in 2000, not 1 in 5000. So yes, apparently the "old" Ultra Containers had an exotic rarity of 1 in 200, while it was 1 in 2000 for regular containers.

Very nice :) Thanks for taking the time to make this ? Gives interesting approximations for the value of Containers/Ultras. Provided of course, that the numbers the developers have provided are accurate - let's hope they are.

Well actually I had more than 38 accounts - how many combos are there (not counting Tesla or hovering hulls?) - a lot :) Any time I wanted to try a new combo, I made a new account rather than buying the items on the same account. It worked well for free player under the older systems, if you didn't care about being high ranked.

Well that's nice, however I have actually opened over 1000 of the old containers, and over 1000 of the new ones - and I didn't receive a single Legendary at all in over 1000 of the new. So unless I am astonishingly unlucky, it seems that the chance for a Legendary with the new containers is much less than 1%. By contrast, in the old containers I would almost always have received several Legendaries with that many containers. I would like to see some hard data of actual openings from players, before I trust what the developers are saying here. These are the same people that just put 10 crystal value paints into the rare tier, as well as constantly fail to declare critical changes in patch notes (including any mention of altering container rewards per tier, in this very patch). So I am losing trust in them fast, quite frankly.