Yeah, I know them. And as long as flipping skill can be countered with "flip-prevention-skill" I would have no issue with that. The problem starts at the situations, where flipping can not be prevented: If you drove a wasp M2 full speed and stopped (cause and corner gets near) and some Rail M3 shot you from behind, you flipped forward. If you drive in sandbox straight line along the outside and someone shots you with rail M3 from the higher ground you flip. No chance to prevent that if you did not see him coming (cause you aimed for another guy at the base) If you are in an infight with someone on close range and encircle him, and some other guy shots you while you are in that circle, you flip outside. No chance to prevent that, as circles and sharp curves are the main dodge possiblity of a wasp (it does not brake and accelerate as hard as a hornet). ... I drive wasp 100% of my time and know rather good how to keep it up.. but the only way to prevent flipping 100% is to not to move at all and turn in your nose to the enemies direction all the time. Wasp M2 against Rail M3 was kind of a flipping orgy. They don't even have to hit you perpenciular. And add a little lag of your enemy to the story and you find yourself only on your back. Honestly.. I don't need a wasp for doing so. I don't need a wasp if my average movement speed _must_ be slower then hornet due to many little brakes and curves in order of flipping prevention. The situation before.. was simply a mess for wasps -.- (of course not for hornet M3 users). I agree that flipping adds some spice.. and I would apriciate if it's likelyhood is reduced to 10% of the amount of before. In the meanwhile I enjoy a tactical game, instead of wathing my tank upside down.

This is true. And I was also able to flip hornets. But most of the time I did not do it. Because I want to have that the other guy has fun as well, instead of studiing the bottom of his own tank. Maybe you think back of how you defended against tanks before flipping was introduced (before turrets had a hitbox). Also at those times, hornets have been more popular, as wasps are simply harder to control if you want to play agile and fast (stop-shot-move.. ). Hornet is more balanced.. and the wasp users pay their price already

I am very happy about this recent change. At my ranks there are enough players that have the skill to flip you "at will", and it is really not funny to spend 1/3rd of the time on your back in XP/BP. Finally tactics and thinking ahead counts more, then a single shot that takes out a player for about 15 seconds.. i love it :) :) :) Wasp and Hornet have still enough differentiation points, as the hornet stabilizes faster and accelerates better - both thigs the wasp is poor at. Each one has its unique use-profile.. and finally wasps are not a "potential risk to your own team" im clanwars. Some guys I know complained about it. You know what the have in common? They practise flipping as a sport.. and make funnies out of tanks they've flipped. Good to know, this has an end :)

Flipping happens now only when a tank is in an unstable position (ramp, edge, air) or if both tanks shot simultaniously and the impact force and recoil adds up. What should I say... this is AAAWWWWSSSSOOOOOMMMEEE !!!! Finaly tactics and skill count more then flipping others, and finally gameplay makes more fun then waiting for selfdestruct. A wasp can be used like it's ment to be, without taking frequent caution to each and every direction (which is pretty impossible on larger maps). perfect !

Today it was very very hard to flip M2 Hornets with by using an M3 rail on RU1 server I was told so by some friend.. and we tried.. also others joined and tried.. we did not manage to flip M2 hornets as easy as it was. Impact Force and weight seem the same. Was there some change in the games engine regarding that? ps: I like this harder flipping very very very much, as flipping is a very anoying thing at higher ranks. There many players have the precision and experience to flip others at will.

so now you know why they spend so much effort in atracting new players (mouse controls, supply bonuses, decent kits for starters, ..)

But most of them just talk about the power they have, and are too lazy to demonstrate or use it. Empty meanance

Actually they seem not even to reply here. If this is a phase to gather long duration statistics on the battlefield then I would like to know. If they consider that we continue to play anyways and adapt to the new system, so they have no need to do some actiion in the next weeks.. they are most likely right :(

so maybe you want to change the "only for Dark knight members" text in the starting post as well ;)

You dislike hammer because it can destroy hornets by one shot on double damage. Me too. You know that your liked Thuder does the same, but on larger distance? In my opinion - Thunder is either too strong or Hornets and Wasps too weak. - Hammers fire cone should be spread up wider to be as powerfull as now on short distance, while loosing just a little power on medium range Freeze looks powerfull.. but in fact my only chance using it now is to bump into my enemies tank to stop him turning and wait until he dies. This poor and boring tactic makes me feel like a noob.. therefor I will not purchase freeze M3.

5 meters is about one wasps length. I made a picture an d a comparism of old to new Freeze.. I compared M2, but M3 would have quite the same relation. You can see in he graph, that your damage is about 20% less now. link Paired with the lost power to slow down hulls, you are doomed - except you can bump into a tank to stop it from turning. Fire reads to have simmilar statistics, but the afterburn effect of fire kills you. Because even at "long range" the fire deals less damage now.. but it still triggers the enormous effective afterburn effect, independent of the range. We made various tests yesterday with my M2 freeze against several other M2 weapons mounted on a hornet. (Freeze M2 vs. with Rico, Isida, Twins and Fire) The results where alwaas the same, as long as the enemy hornet - drives backwards keeping the distance and - uses its hull to aim well, -> The freeze dies in every situation (Against the Rico I started the run at about 25m distance.. so I was pretty close already) To sum it up: forget this weapon by now. Dont spend crystals on it.

Well.. some of them do. For instance Hazel, that reads and posts in the thread that I've liked to you. And honestly I apriciate this very much because I assume that he is not paid especially for that ;) But some things feels like they are simply ignored. The Devs have plans for certain things.. and take them out to implement them. There is not much feedback they ask for. And when they get feedback like on the changes in parameters (they had a test on open testservers) then it often seems to me, that they ignore it (too less answers on cruicial points). But whatever.. they are a business and have in first place to create a suitable environment for the paying players. No buyers, no money, no tanki. Easy as that. Still I wish they would interact and reason their decisions a little more. I still found no clue, why the new rebalance was made so biased on some weapons.. while others have been castrated.

You guys maybe want to participate there: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=246957 This is a discussion about drugs and their abusinve use. The main idea is that drugs are vital to tanki.. as spice for tactics when used non as mass-ware.. and very vivid for tanki to make money out of it (selling drug kits). Remeber tanki is a business. But the target of the thread seems to aim into a direction to find other ways for tanki to make money.. and to promore ways to have a better coexstiance of druggers (as they are necessary) and good sportsmanship. It#s a lot of pages.. and I fear you have to at least read once through to not to state already given ideas again. But there is the right place. I fear here in this thread there is not even one from the officials left reading it -.-

^ +1... Also you could learn from better guys a lot. The moments when I was killed by some awsome move, and during my respawn period I just sit ther with open mouth and think like "what the f****"...". I learned a lot from these higher ranked pro's that could move like liquid through enemies, leaving devestation while still surviving. Althoug those guys beat me hard, it was a pleasure to watch them ,to see their skill and analyse their moves and intention. While druggers just rush in on full drugs, get the flag and rush out at full drugs. This is just anoying.

^- yes. The angle Hammer spreads his pellets is too narrow still.. and so the usable range with real high damage is too long. 7 degrees cone angle are not enough.

It depends if you like the gameplay. I loved my Freeze and I planned to get it M3. Now the changes are here.. and the weapon has become boring to me. Gameplay has changed from "clever / wizzed" to "bump into and wait until they die". If you like that.. then get it. If not, then not. I will most likely not get the M3 now. Only thing that I like about Freeze now is that I do not have to spend crystals on it anymore :p

The range for minumum-damage increases.. but as seen in the pic above the damage that you deal there is neglectable. The old freeze parameters, extended by adapted freezed-speeds would be more usefull.. and then you would also get something with the upgrades. If the sooo favorite refrigerator kit freezes a wasp flagrunner a little.. the wasp just keeps going. The speed reduction is too less, and the Viking is anyways to slow to catch up. I play this game for 7..8 Months now, and I played really a lot of freeze time. People told me I was pretty good and so in the beginning they complained Freeze is OP. But in fact they complained only during M0 /M1 phase (as the tanks and turrets are slow anyways) In M2/M3 noone complained any more.. their tanks/turrets turned faster and it was possible to handle attacking freezers. So why not change M0/M1 Freeze.. instead of changing the whole weapons characteristic??

Comparism Freeze M2 before/after I made a comparism of the total dealable damage in dependance of the aplied range. The results.. are pretty anoying.. Freeze was totaly nerved (unless you bump right into the enemy like a noob): To the right (x-axis) is the range in Meters. A wasp is about 5meters long.. so 5Meters are basically nothing. To the top (y-axis) is the dealable damage per charge (damage you can deal by using all your charge). The pictures of the Wasp/Freeze, the targeted Hunter/Smokey and the distances / Ranges are pretty well in scale. It is pretty obvious that the new freeze has less dealable damage in the medium range, which is the usual freeze fighting distance (you have to keep agile to prevent to be hit by others or by your enemy). New way to use freeze now -> is to start your fire _only_ when you are very, very very close. -> Best bump into your enemy like the noobs use to do. Now you have to play so noobish as well, just in order to prevent your enemy from turning around and killing you. -> Forget about chasing flag runners. You just waste your energy and by the time you cought him in range, you are here with no energy left. -> Play like firebirds used to do: Rush close, fire late, hope to kill. Unfortunately you have no afterburn that finishes the job after you ran out of energy... -> boring turret -.- I really would like to know _why_ this change was done. I wonder if some dev reads this here.. and is kindly enough to explain the background of this changes. Better adaptations (IMHO, please discuss) If people complained about freezers to fix them too hard.. it would have been more usefull to adapt the freezeing-rate / final freezeing-speed of the enemy for the M-Levels: M0 freeze let the enemy drive/turn with 80% of its speed (M0 hulls are slow.. they feel like stuck if frozen) M3 freeze let the enemy drive with 50% of its speed (M3 hulls and turrets turn so fast that M3 freeze had a hard life anyways)

A fire user can not unfrezze himself, only other tanks. But still killing Freezers is soo easy now. I just turn my tank and shot him down.. Freeze is like a Firebird without afterburn effect. Comparism Freeze M2 before/after I made a comparism of the total dealable damage in dependance of the aplied range. The results.. are pretty anoying.. Freeze was totaly nerved (unless you bump right into the enemy like a noob): To the right (x-axis) is the range in Meters. A wasp is about 5meters long.. so 5Meters are basically nothing. To the top (y-axis) is the dealable damage per charge (damge you can deal by using all your charge). The pictures of Freezer, its freeze effect and the hunter/smokey are pretty well in scale. It is pretty obvious that the new freeze has less dealable damage in the medium range, which is the usual freeze fighting distance (you have to keep agile to prevent to be hit by others or by your enemy). New way to use freeze now -> is to start your fire _only_ when you are very, very very close. -> Best bump into your enemy like the noobs use to do. Now you have to play so noobish as well, just in order to prevent your enemy from turning around and killing you. -> Forget about chasing flag runners. You just waste your energy and by the time you cought him in range, you are here with no energy left. -> Play like firebirds used to do: Rush close, fire late, hope to kill. Unfortunately you have no afterburn that finishes the job after you ran out of energy... -> boring turret -.- I really would like to know _why_ this change was done. I wonder if some dev reads this here.. and is kindly enough to explain the background of this changes. Better adaptations (IMHO, please discuss) If people complained about freezers to fix them too hard.. it would have been more usefull to adapt the freezeing-rate / final freezeing-speed of the enemy for the M-Levels: M0 freeze let the enemy drive/turn with 80% of its speed (M0 hulls are slow.. they feel like stuck if frozen) M3 freeze let the enemy drive with 50% of its speed (M3 hulls and turrets turn so fast that M3 freeze had a hard life anyways)

:ph34r: They gotta sell of the Vikings before players notice what a cool hull Hunter is. Or have you seen some decent Hunter Kits last time? ;) ;)

This is a CP (capturepoint) battle. You earn _personal_points_ by: - damage or kills - neutralising the point - capturing the point. You earn _Battlescore_ (18:174 in your example) by: - waiting. It increases by itself as long one team has seized the point. Must have been a boring battle :P Also a cheap one, as the batlte fund does _not_ increase with the CP-point-coutner (18:174).

true... And I think the new effect on the hull is much too weak against M2/M3 hulls. It might be ok for M0, as the hulls are slow there anyways.. This change took out the whole clever wizzed gameplay out of this turret... and made it a stupid "go close and blast" turret. Shame that all the fun is gone..

^ Maybe you missed this perspective: Due to the new characteristics of the freeze, this guide would maybe have to be changed. So the latest changes in tanki made this here a "recent topic" again. But before to adapt it, it would be usefull to hear, what heavy freeze users think and do now, how they fight now.

what do you guys think about the new freeze?

After the changes they've done to Hunter and Dicator, they have to sell off the Vikings. Therefor so many kits with them I guess..