regarding the fire-freeze-isida tests.. in Firevs-Freeze, the fire has to win, simply as it's afterburn is added to the normal damage. It his is not the case, then either some stats are wrong, or the issue is truely the triggering delay of the humans (which we can not get rid off, except you open two flash-players on the same computer and trigger the space bar for both windows by a script) Interresting. My Isida displays 4 numbers per second.

sure.. the alternations are only usefull for higher ranks The truth about thunder video showed lower damage, as it recorded only the kill-shots.. I assume there was not more to be taken away from his poor victim :P

I do not support the 25% just for DM thing.. in pro battles without supplies it would not be able to play an attack support role, and isidas will find themselfes reduced to base-camping healers.

it is hard for 2 players to trigger the space button at the same time

[ ]#frustrated [ ]#grr [ ]#angry [x]#suspicious No worries.. I respect only parts of your character :P But those I do.

Maybe Isida was reduced, because battles became boring if long&midrangers camped in Silence and get healed up by Isidas all the time. I often faced the situation that I as rail dealt zero points for Miuntes.. as all the damage I dealt was healed away. Anyways it would make more sense to limit the number of Isidas per battle, instead of limiting the Isida itself. By limiting the number of Isidas the single Isidas would still be more compeatative

Top speed m2 wasp, pre update: 11,853 Top speed M3 wasp, post update: 11,53 It is simply.. slower

You have to take into account, that it is very unlikely, that an Isida can maintain it's maxium range during an fight. It will be closer, as the firebird will chase it. If the Isida drives backwards, the firebird will stop until the Isida is ot of its range, and continue to follow up with dealing mostly afterburn damage, keeping an eye on his energy bar. Same goes for freeze: if an Isida goes backwards he increases distance, freezes it do standstill from safe distance and then takes over at one side to take it out. Also Fire and Freeze have more range and can start to shoot the ISida earlier, while the Isida is not yet capable to shoot (half a second of effect) If we talk about balance.. then it is more then just damage. - isida has no "long lasting effect" (afterburn that allows hit&run; Freeze slowdown that allows multiple tactics in offense and defense (besides killing!), - Isida has no area damage (ability to hit multiple targets simulataniously). So overall.. there are more negative aspects then positive ones, if you talk about facing each other 1-1. Of course an Isida can heal. but this always made it the first tank to die. Therefore was the selfhealing needed.. to takebalance out the large crosshair planted on it's back. So while I am completely ok with fire and frezee beeing stronger killers then an Isida, the selfhealing was a valueble aspect that made Isidas survive in attack support and in defense. Both roles are now significantly harder.. because the enemies will continue to aim at the Isida as primary target. I still believe, that cutting the DP effect on selfhealing would have been enough of a balance. To gain 2x the health from the target when on DP, was the issue that made isidas invincible. Cut this, and the rest is fine.

Yeah it's a game - and since centuries -> kids prepare in games / games prepare the kids -> for real life, teaching them the results of their actions and train them on human interaction. The longer young personalities are expossed to such bad "standards", the more they will adapt it. And if they are shown another way to handle things (meaning no swearing, no insulting, no "come 1-1, I'll 'rek you" to solve minor crap) the more they are likely to become & stay like that after they log out here.

Well an M2 Wasp without Nitro can not jump anymore on Montecarlo. Even an M3 Wasp without nitro can not jump Montecarlo. I doubt that a Viking on Nitro should be better then the fastet hull in the game without nitro..

Well one other thing is, that the damage of firebird is states as [damage per second] in the stat's, but the game does inflict the damage in portions each 0,25seconds. So isntead of dealing ~800 _once_ a second, you deal about ~200 _four_times_per_second_. So if those low numbers pop up 4x a second, then they are fine. For the afterburn time I have no idea why you experience such low afterburn times. I do not own a high grade firebird, so I cant test it by myself.

Wasp: please incrase the Turning Acceleration -.- I purchased M3 wasp as driving with my M2 got me depressed after the balance. It was simply no fun to drive it, no fun to play with it. But well.. my new M3 is still too sluggish. Fast changes from a left to right turn are way to slow. Fake-turns into one direction and then a ddoge into the other are useless now Dodge around houses (Railers use that to keep out of the fireline while they reload) is.. crappy with that low turning acceleration Try to drive 8's around the small twin houses in Barda, RedBase of BlueBase Due to lower weight the Wasp is shaked more by rail impacts. Ok.. But due to lower turning accelertion it takes longer to correct the driving path -.- Maybe the same applies for Hornet as well.. I dont know, I dont use Hornets. So please: Incrase the Turning Acceleration and make Wasp driving more precise!! You took out the fun of Waps -.-

it is 31% off, so you have to pay the remaining 69%. so [railgunPrize] x [0.69] = discounted price

Don't think of burning time.. better think of heating rate. An "of stock" M2 firebird has a heating rate of 0.2 and a temperature limit of 0.6. So it will increase the enemies temperature-rating from 0 to 0.6 withing 3 seconds (0 -> 0.2 -> 0.4 -> 0.6). IF (and only if) you flame the enemy for 3 seconds constantly, THEN it will have a temp of 0.6, and THEN the burning time is as given by tanki (burnign time = time for temperature to drop back to zero by the cooling rate). Afterburn deals 300 hp damage per second if you reach temp 1.0; for temp 0.6 the burning damage is 60% of 300hp. If you stop heating them, the temp will drop and so will the burning damage. For your damage readins.. have you been close up? You have to be closer then 7,79 meters for an firebird M2, in order to deal max damage (a wasp or the tiles on the ground are about 5 meters long.. to give you an idea). Damage decreases fast if you are further away. check the wiki for mode details

May I ask you to share your tactics and playing style there: Lets discuss Isida. Would be really apriciated by a lot of now frustrated players

Hmm. Did you compare an M2 Rail vs an M3 Hornet? Or have I got you wrong? An M3 Rail takes in avg. 2 shots to kill an M3 IsidaHornet (90+ % of all cases according to tanki.. I tend to believe them there). An M3 rail has a full reload cycle of 4,3 seconds. The Isida takes.. 3,xx Seconds to kill that RailHornet This means, if the rail delivers the first hit aprox 1,3 second before the Isida can start fireing, then the RailHornet will survive. USually it works great. But no drugs, as said. If the rail sees the Isida very late, the rail should run to the next house driving backwards while shooting at the isida during its retreat. Even if the Isida catches the rail, the edge of the house will interrupt the Isida's damage dealing. Then the railer chases the Isida around the house to reload, and delivers the killshot. Nothing hard. The biggest mistakes railers make in this situation, is to stand firm, aim and shoot - instead of retreating instantly. Any yes, driving backwards on the map you play is hard in the beginning.. but truely cruicial. And yes, there are houses. Becuase if there are none, then there is no reason why the Isida was spotted late. If the railer see's the Isida too late on semi-open grounds, then it is his own fault (wrong position, bad sight, no use of camera, not taken care of environment - or all of them). And once the closeranger worked it's way cloeup undetected, he has to have the kill advantage. Else noone would use closerangers.. truely noone.

Without drugs, pre balance: - an Isida could compete against other tanks almost as good as fire and freeze could. Selfhealing was no problem ,as the damage output was way lower then fire or freeze. The kill just took longer, as the damge output of Isida was lower, but the Isida could keep up by healing itself a little (50% are not way overpwoered if you consider the low damage output) With drugs, on DP: - an Isida could do twice the damage... but it would also heal itself twice as fast. As soon as it fired on someone, it left the challenge with almost full health. conclusion - self healing is not a problem.. to have it based on the double damage is the problem.

I am with you, that players cant change the world. But they can make single players think.. and some will change. Those changes are maybe just drops in the ocean.. but remember, that an ocean is just a large collection of drops ;) I still believe, that people that spot less mature wrong behaviour, have two option: - say something non-insulting, non-agressive that makes the other one think, or at least realise what he is doing - do nothing and dont care Imagine how the world would look like, if everyone would not care for anything. It would have a bad end. To let the bad things win.. it is sometimes sufficient to stop doing good things. And if this sounds unrealistic and idealistic to you.. you are right. I also can't do (and don't want to do) this all the time. But I definitely do not want to stop it completely. Feels wrong to me. 2000MC has my respect for keeping it up ;) That guy is great.. I met him in a few battles, and he really did his job well. Banned the insulting players, talked to the guys that sabotaged their team, and making them end up with a ban as they did no comply to his request (he had no symbol infront of his name). We definitely need more of those around ;) edit: Saw some proove that made me change my mind..

I read also quite some complaints here in other threads, that tell that - there are less Isidas around (my opinion: that's good) - and that they have a hard time (multiple tanks using same turret + having a hard time = beeing unbalanced) For sure they are still here.. because (as written) players cant afford to switch easily.. or they love it. And they still have a role in teambattles (it's just harder). So lets see. I hope there is more versatile gameplay for Isidas in the future, then sitting behind some heavies in the base, and pressing space key with the correct timing, while trying to find cover for themselfes. Attack support was much fun with Isidas (and I do not drug). So.. while you are absolutely right, that the number of Isidas grew absourd because of it's OPness on DP, a change was truely necessary. But -> they changed the wrong thing (to cancel the effect of DP on self heal would have been much better) -> they did not balance isida, they nerved it below balance to be unbalanced, while they increased the other close rangers I would call this "imbanace". As those guys are actually pretty clever + the other alternative ideas have been around for far longer then the rebalance.. Still they've chosen to disbalance it. So it was most likely on purpose, to drive players actively away from Isida. > The continue to balance popularity by disbalancing power > instead of balancing power and give turrets other characteristics to balance popularity > This balance of diversity paradign is either a problem, or a purpose (drive crystal spendings), or both. example:

I bet the times of Isidas will come again. Hopefully not as OP as it was (just nameing the selfhealing on DP) but at least more usefull then it is today. I know a lot of Isida players complained as the attack cone was reduced from something like 35degrees to 15 degrees... but that was a matter of skill and practice to get used to it. But this update is way different. You can not sustain longer if you aim for some few percents more precise. Although it would be a nice alternation.. to bring back self healing while reducing the cone to 5 degrees. But.. it would be useless. Pros would adapt and as long they do not chenge the impact of DP on self healing, the turret will be OP again on supplies -.-

Yes. I have to say, I actually like this damage model of max, min and weak damage. You have a definitely set range, and at the same time you deal at least a little damage at rangers longer then that. It's kind of sad, that criticals do decrease with range too (or at least have a way lower hp decrease over range). Without more usefull criticals the Smoky clearly deals less damage then thunder at the weak damage ranges (Thundder has 50%, Smoky 10%). Also Thunder has the splash to be more efficient, while smoky can not offer (anymore) something to keep up with it. The only advantage of smoky is the higher fire rate.. which comes at a disadvantage of exposing yourself. All togehter I assume, that most Smoky pilots will opt for the alteration Assoult Ammunition, as soon as they realise the low critical impact.. but of course we do not know yet the M3 alteration. Maybe this is the critical hit increase.. on cost of.. whatever.

Sorry, that's not my point. You talk about forbidden, while I talk about "beeing ineffective". There are always maps and scenarios where some turret are "ineffective". Like Rail-Wasp is "ineffective" on Arena-CP battles, if it is crwoded with Titan-Twins. It can play.. it will even score nice and save your teammates butt sometimes.. but other combots are so _much_more_efficient_. While those rail-example shows that certain turrets do not fit certain scenarios/maps, >> the isida example impacts a complete gamemode (DM) on all maps You are right that Isida was OP on Supplies.. and therefore I proposed a long time ago to change Isida mechanics in a way, that the DP drug will not double the self healing. A lot of players agreed (also Isida players).. but Tanki seems not to like this proposal, in order to take out the overpowerness. They rather decrease other values, that have been balanced. I don't know if you played vs Isidas in drug free Pro battles. They where so much less powerfull there.. and it felt truely balanced to compete with them. Either in DM or in Teambased battles.. it was ok (I play Wasp-Rail 95% of my time, so flanking the enemies base and fighting Isidas is one of my main tasks) Isida' selfhealing on drugs is the issue, no Isida overall Think of it: selfhealing on drugs made the Isida loose almost NO hp all (!) if it encounters any other tank and could shot at it. You deal double damage and receive none. That was ridiculous. But instead of solving a problem, they created a new one.

Thnx ;) - and no worries, it was not you answering me that way ;) I cant find the original question and answer at the moment; most likely because I use the wrong key words to search the forum. I checkmarked it with "useless to proceed" in my mind, and the details in my memory got deleted thereafter :p

You make structured, strong points - I like that ;) Lets talk about DM first, and talk about Teammodes thereafter. I think, that the changes in the last update defacto locked out Isidas from DMs. Now Teambattles Overall summary: Does not sound balanced to me. ps: sorry for the typos.. I gotta sleep now.. late here :)

Yes, I've asked for it quite some time ago (more then a month?). My question was, that I asked to share their plans.. or at least the issues that they want to solve with the community.. so we can give some feedback _before_ it's all implemented and done. I think the answer I got was something like [dont worry, dev's will do a good job. They consider all kind of scenarios] (according to my memory.. may vary slightly. But I think this was the core message. Well thats the polite and professional and kids-compatible version of "sorry, we dont give any information and are not interrested to share that with everyone in the forum". You can choose if they truely believe that Or if it was just a comment of protection.Either to protect the devs from potential useless ideas (I mean.. honestly.. even today they have 2x a week a request to make equiipment sellable.. or to make this or that weapon overpowered) Or to protect their plans because they may not be in the interrest of the average (free) player. After the answer I'd heard enough to know, that I can stop asking.