acutally dev's wrote that no alternations are planned for hulls (wiki page regarding alternations). But.. I think this is "just at the moment" and it will change for sure, after they see how many crystasl they can suck back from the players by selling alternations (and balancing, rebalancing and changing them). Also it can be used very nicely to camoflage balance issues.. or on the other hand they could rebalance our stuff and then offer alternations to put it back. Lets see

Oh that's nice :) Please try to play that account for 1..2 hours without using any supplies.. or in pro battles on RU2. Then tell me, if you still think that it is overpowered in a way, to be nerved by huge amounts. This would be really interresting. Is like "you are used to life with this and that amount of money per month? I take away 20% hereof and 80% thereof.. But dont jump into conclusions fast.. " :p I think I did enough of analysis since I entered the game (this is an alt) to have a pretty good feeling what effects which numbers will do. But still your comment is fair enough - so lets see. It's good that you're an Isida user by yourself, so you will see it firsthand. And pls remember, the turret has to be playable without drugs as well. (I anyways assume, that the balance will come - and then changed a month later again.. as usual :p)

Lets assume "balance of power" could be worded like "every turret on the battlefield has about the same power to overcome others" - if used propperly. So lets assume an Isida and it's friend (a midranger, smoky) fight vs a firebird and his friend (a midranger, smoky) Today, chances are high, that the attackers get the upper hand if: their midranger come in and targets my Midranger at distance from behind a corner.. Isida wastes half it's energy on healing. Then the firebird comes along, finishes the half-empty Isida without an issue while it uses the Isida as a cover from the midfielder. He gets some shots by the Smoky but he toastst it as well (he can attack two close up targets simultaniously); the firebird gets downed, and the enemy smoky can finish off the remainings of my midranger. Today you need skill for such an attack; in the future you just drive in and kill the isisda first, as it can not counterattack/defend itself. Then the smoky is due.. and lucky you. Isidas future specs will weaken the teams. Isida was a little OP on full M4 (healing & damage 66); and massively OP on Supplies (especially on DP but also on DA). To cut down the effect of supplies on selfhealing to zero (no double selfhealing if on DP) and it is a complete new world. Then just a slight adaptation to Damage has to be made and the Isida would be balanced. The new update sends it to the scrapyard.

ehm, maybe you overlook that I used the new parameters? After the update the Thunder will take 3 Shots to kill a Hornet, so it takes 2 reload periods (as the shot consumes no time for a Thunder) Because I actually made my calculations in exact that way, that you proposed too: the first shot takes no time (for Smokys and Thunders) and Hammers

You compare a shortrange turret to a longrange turret. Shortrangers have to deal more damage then longrangers; as the shorties have to balance out the risk to be shot by you while they aproach you. If shortrangers would do as much damage as longrangers, then noone would use the shortrange turret. --- I dont know your equipment on your alt, but lets assume it is all M1: Your M1 Smoky would need 4 shots to take out an M1 Wasp (with some slightly MUs) = 3 reload periods = 5,4 seconds. An M1 firebird it would toast your Titan in 4..5 seconds (5sec if your health is upgraded from 200hp -> 240hp). Simmilar values for Freeze M1.. while here you have a slightly bigger chance to survive. You manage to kill the Isida - so it is obviously weaker then the other two shortrangers. Sounds all fair to me.. ..and it starts to get unbalanced on Supplies: where a firebird of Freeze doubles only his damage, the Isida will double Damage and self healing. Thats where the biggest advantage of that turret comes from. Same goes for DA.. an Isida on DA looses roughly the amount of health it is regaining.

I wonder how they collect data in those mass test. I hope they won't use those google forms, where they - most of the time - give only questisons that make reasoning and differentiated feedback impossible :p (do you think it is better?... well yes here and there; no at others.. so what to take? I dont know? useless forms :p )

I see no point why they reduce - healing AND damage AND self healing Well ok, I see one argument, one single point, that makes this move necessary: Tanki wants the M4 isida users to buy different turrets.. and then later they "balance it back" (like they did with hunter and Viking..)

values are for a M3 Smoky wiki update page (max damage 548hp @ max dmg range up to 65meters, min damage 130hp @ min dmg range 130meters, critical hp 599hp @ critical chance 20%) and here (old smoky wiki page) (weak damage 10% of max dmg = 55hp dealt @ targets beyond min dmg range) I understood it in a way, that the critical damage is not decreased by range.. but obviously others think different. Therefore I've asked the question here if Smokys critical damage will truly be a 2% on-top of normal damage (+10% damage by 20% chance = useless, more then unseless.. just crap) or if it will be a critical hit, that is not influenced by range (the only thing that makes sense). Cedric replied he will try to get an answer. Lets get this clerified, so we know what this turret is about.

This is definitely an issue.. but it will resolve over time. I profiled some of the players in your screenshot in red team: > most of them have M3's already > but also most of them will be marshal within 4..8 weeks by their given rankup speed (most, not all) I generally find it a good idea to have all M3s unlock at one rank; and in exchange have those M3s beeing at the same powerlevel (you know.. some early M3s in the past have been weaker then some late unlocking late M3s.. - this is now history). It will be a tough 2..3 months until most rank issues are overcome.. but then it should be better then now. (just talking about the ranks, not talking about the balance issues the new update brings as well)

Thats the issue. An ISida is simply the first thing that is targeted when a base is entered. The high selfhealing and healin was so important in Team battles, as it kept the isida alive longer, while all attackers made it's life shorter as a primary target. Nerve the selfhealing on double power, thats enough. Leave healing and those others specs like they've been.

I was tempted to write the same - no kidding xD

thanks ;) But the inbalance of Isidas in DM does only occure because of it's selfhealing on supplies (DoublePower = the Isida can heal with 100% of the damagte that it deals = it does not loose health on close range). If selfhealing would not be doubled by the DoublePower supply, then Isida would be balanced as it is today. IMHO this would be the far better balance adaptation

Well, each year has about 52..53 Mondays. So technically you still could be answerwed in time :)

yes, the turret would be dead in DM. In team battles it will prevail, but it will die faster (today an healing isida could pop out behind its cover and attack an incoming attacker short before he died completely. This way it could top up it's health with each attacker a little bit.. which was very, very important as most attackers attack the Isidas first (check K/D rates of isida players in team battles..).

Offical answer (by tanki) highly requested: The now Smoky stats state a critical damage that is less then +10% stronger then normal damage.. and the chance that this critical is inflicted is 20%. So.. does this mean 1) the averade damage of smoky is increased by 2% by its criticals? Thats too low to be even worth the effect... 2) or is it in a way, that the critical damage does not gets less with range, and so the critical damage is a real suprise thing on longer ranges? If yes, is there a range limit to critical damage?

thanks for the answer!

derived from the description in the wiki. It does not state, that the damage of critical hits is influenced by range. Besides it is the only logical thing.. I mean.. do you really think that Tanki gives a +9% damage by a 20% chance? This translates into an averade damage increase of aprox. +2%.. which is not even recogniseable. Edit: But I asked that question a few posts below to have it clearified. I truely understand it in the way, that the critical damage is now not anymore reduced by range. I am not 100% sure if it reaches longer then the min.damage range of ~130 meters, but it would make sense if it does. About the overall DPM reduction: I have not compared old smoky to new smoky; I just plotted some graphs that show me the average DPM of most new turrets compared to each other on the Y-axis and given different ranges on the X-axis. I have not yet made those graphs official, as in my optinion _DPM_alone_ is a misleading value. DPM counts in CP games; and in other gamemodes if you are a pure damage dealing player that covers the midfield. In most other situations the TTK is more important - IMHO.

agreed on everything; but I like to add something to Smoky. Smoky's new critical damage is a long range critical damage; as it can deal the amount of "close range damage" on infinite range - and this with 20% chance. On long range smoky deals a damage of about 50 hp; while the niew critical damage can inflict 500+ hp with a 20% chance (once all 7 seconds). It makes a noticeable change in the DPM-over-range (damage per minute) chart.

May I ask what kind of strageies you are involved in? Communication towards community, monetisation, market orientation..? And what are you actually doing and thinking of there?

hmm.. I dont think that this aproach would turn away too many new players. You know, new players cant even chat until they reach rank (new since half a year or so; no announcement about it) and so they know only the things they see themselfes in battles. That kits serve the same purpose as a sale ("oh, its a sale.. I can save so much.. if I just invest a little USD/EUR I could get.... and this.... !"). the sale is just a trigger point for crystals purchases. But this is ok as well.. as it is stil lthe better deal (ever calculated how many hours you have to work in tanki if you want to earn crystals, and compared that to the crystal prices in the shop? If not.. better dont ;)) By my experience there are other main forces driving the players away: - drug abuse of some players, that crunshes the efforts of players that want to play drug free. But at the same time the alternatives for playing drug free are kind of non-existing up to 600.000 XP points (and still then those batltes are rare). - Tanki allows us to purchase tanks and turrets and stuff. But all 9..18 months they change the stats in a way, that is _no_ balance alignment; it is a major rebalance. Some stuff looses it's characteristics why it was chosen for (hornet will not drift any more, viking will -.-) - They constantly reduce the amount of servers, which provokes lag (their servers overload and processing iis slower and slower = we face telefporting tanks). - most of the stuff they do, is not announced in time. One time they even had things like a christmas sale.. and rebalanced :afterwards:. (This rebalance is the first excelent piece of in-time pupblic information since 2 years) - many changes are here to increase their income. But instead of telling so.. and find a fair path that works for both parties, they pretend that the reasons are to make the game better for the players. They are not very good at camoflaging that.. so the players notice it and feel conned. - and in higher ranks: Mults. Mults.. and even more Mults. Those are the comments I read most often here.. and that I also read in the chats in the battles. Maybe I missed something.. feel free to add.

I think for Isida it would have been much more usefull, if the would have done those two things: - on DP the isida does not heal _itself_ twice as fast, but just with normal rate - if an Isida heals another Isisda, the healing rate is reduced This would have balanced isidas very well. What they've done now is not good. There was a reason why M3 Freeze was the lowest used M3 turret. There will be the same reason why M3 isida will be the lowest used in the future. The only thing it can be used for after this upgrade, is as "best buddy" for an Vulcan. Actually.. boring and facetteless.

Honestly sorry for you :/ I hope you had a long time in which you could enjoy your M4 Isida up to now. I purchased a Medic Kit about a month or so ago, I enhanced it by 2x +13 MUs and played the combo 17 hours up to now. Maybe I can use it up to 30 hours until the update... and then it is crap. If I am lucky it is a pure "sit in the base and heal" combo.. with a -then- drifting Viking -.- so much for diverse gameplay -.- so many crystals and so hard saveups for 30 hours -.-

You know that a Vulcan + Isida are two tanks.. and it should be "ok" that two tanks are stronger then one tank (you)? I agree on a nerf of impact force.. for the DPS it is very ok if it is higher then thunder or smoky. The reason why I think so is, thata Vulcan can not use cover - it HAS to EXPOSE itself. A Thunder makes a shot and hides für 2.5 seconds.. a Vulcan is getting hit during all the time it fires. Therfore single Vulcans in battles are no big issue. Only teams of Vulcans are real big trouble, because they can keep all "sniper hideouts" as well as incoming routes under fire. On longer maps this is anissue.

go to the wiki page and compare the new prices with the other new prices. This has to be aligned somehow.. the old pricing is not so relevant any more.

As railgunner you have a very long reload speed combined with a slowly turning turret. In order to be efficient you have to think ahead - for yoursefl, your team; but also and foremost for your enemy. the chargeup also has to be taken into account which makes battling in narrow terrains a real challenge. With rail you have can be "usefull" through out the whole battlefield, where an isida has limited range. So an Isida usualy "is fine" with just checking out its surroundings and spot into some incoming routes.. whereby an railgunners job is also to take care to weaken enemy defenders, support his attackers with forward attack support sniping, taking over some midfield guard if the midfielder is downed and support inciming flagrunners on their routes home. If you made it into a clan and play XP/BP on larger maps, you can learn a lot about tactics and possible shots, that you didnt even dream about. Of course this will only happen, if the railgunner does not sit on 2..3 sniping spots per map, waiting for targets to drive by. It takes a little more "interrest" in what is happenning in the battle; and the idea of "how could I support there?", "what do I do if...". On another account I played Freeze up and was very good at it (not my opinion.. but others told me, as well did my score). Then I happenend to be in a clan and had to learn rail.. and a whole new world opened up for me. The ability to have just one shot all xy seconds.. and the fast learned fact that alsmost every shot I missed had some negative effect.. made me learn quite fast.