Dan, you act like it is unethical for Tanki to make money. How do you expect this game to exist without income? Your claim that a player has to pay real money to play is simply untrue. It is not correct. In is contra-factual. It is not a matter of opinion, it is demonstrably untrue. I began Tanki end of July start of August. My accounts: LtCol M2 Vik 18/50 m2 Smoky 17/50 two m2 protection modules 3/10 ~135,000 Cr 2LT Titan m1 31/50 m1 Smoky 23/50 m1 protec mod 3/10 ~ 185,000 Cr 3LT Hornet m2 9/50 Isida m2 8/50 m2 prot mod 1/10 ~ 95,000 Cr WO5 Wasp m1 24/50 Vulcan m1 17/50 ~ 3 m0 Prot mods 1/10 ~115,000 Cr The 2LT already has the CR (with promotion bonus) to buy its m2 kit at CAPT The WO5 already has the CR to buy the m2 Vulcan at 2LT. It has about 30k extra to apply to an m2 hull w/o counting the promotion bonuses. The other two accounts just bought m2 kits shortly after halloween but they are already well ahead of the pace needed to buy their m3 kits. I spent a little money on the LtCol account to get 17 days of premium passes and 20,000 Cr. And that pretty much just makes up for the CR I wasted buying and MUing a LOT of m0 gear while I was learning. The WO5 also spent a lot of Cr that was as he was my "test stuff out" account until Halloween week. Drugs? the LtCol has over 300 RK and over 400 of the others, has had over 500 of some at times The other accounts have between 100 to over 200 RK and over 200 to over 300 of the other types - near or over 400 at times on the Isida account. Aside from that everything was earned from free-play. But I am long-accustomed to long-term plannng and patience.

I agree with that tactic. I am one of the people here who have supported trying the new battle creation/Pro Pass system. However what players can or should do is not what I am talking about right now. What I m talking about right now is the fact that most players do not have the Pro Pass. Also the finish 1st mission seems to come up a lot more often for me now that the map missions are removed. Combine the two and there are more players who are trying to finish mission in standard battles by ... I know this is hard to believe but her me out ... buy actually finishing in first place in a legitimate battle. And in pursuit of this goal, these player might conclude that it's a good strategic use of their supplies. I know this is in fact happening on at least a tiny scale because this is what I do with my accounts that do not have a Pro Pass. You see in order to evaluate the new Pro Pass system I have accounts with one and without one. I am comparing the experiences.

Yep. It is the one time when it pays to join a poorly-performing team. :)

How does a player without a Pro Pass do that? They do not. Most players do not even now. So this majority of players must attempt to win 1st place in a Standard battle. While doing so they use more drugs than they might otherwise. That is the thought I wished to communicate. I offer it as food for thought. I'm not saying this is hard fact ... just an interesting possibility to consider.

Well, I have more Cry under the new system, so your drop in income is not due to the system. And the difference between earning 100,000CR in a month and earning 97,000 Cr in a month simply does not force anyone to spend real money ... that is for players so inept they cannot find a way to re-earn those 3,000 Cr. Good players can adapt poor players cannot. [shrug]

As you can see I deleted my post. Perhaps you can delete your quotation now? Thanks. :)

No excuse, I call bull**** - or - simple cherry picking. I have a PRo pass, and the total nuymber of no-dyrug games I see at a given moment is 1 or zero. I have never seen 15 no drug battles on one server ever even during the free pass week. Perhpas you fone ne extreme case and now you are flogging it as though that were the norm. It isn't.

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List all the non-supplies use ones. That is the point. Not just the raw number of Pro battles. Let's take a time-out here. The full battle creation system is not in place. We cannot judge the concept until we have the ability to do the searching function across servers. And even when this happens players will not adapt to the new potentials for some time.

You are talking to teh wrong person for that. Read my posts and you will see I support the Pro Pass idea at least willing to try it. No. I am trying to understand claims made here. I agree that supplies are part of the game and players have to get used to using them. Payers who spend money buying the 1500 size kit for $20 definitely have an advantage over player who do not spend money. It is folly to deny that.

So according to you two... In your world a player who got all supplies from missions has the same competetive potatial as a player who did his missions plus bought a $20 drug kit. So player A has, say, 50 Repair kits and 150 of each other supply. Player B has the same 50 RK and 150 others from missions, plus 1500 of each from his wallet. So we are expected to believe that Player A with 50 / 150 / 150 / 150 / 150 can match drug for drug with Player B's total: 1550 / 1650 / 1650 / 1650 / 1650. Who's the noob here? The addtion noob?

I used to play a game called Dark Age of Camelot (DAOC). It was a MMORPG designed to support player vs player in an epic 3-way eternal war. So like tanki the idea was to fight other players. Every game is exploited and its system abused. One abuse is victory by wallet... richer players can simply win more. In Tanki those people are called buyers and they are cursed for their bottomless drug stockpiles. In DAOC (and other MMORPGs) the buyer problem takes the form of "bots". This is like a Tanki "mult" but motre so. It is a 2nd game position run at the same time as the main position. Tanki is too hands-on for one player to run two tanks... but that was not the case in DAOC for the most part. Imagine a Tanki Buyer who not only has a lot of drugs, he also has his very own personal Isida to do nothing but follow him around in support 100% of the time. But the biggest differences between a mult/buyer in tanki and a bot in DAOC is this: cost and amount of advantage a dollar could buy. In Tanki to run a mult I open a 2nd browser window. In DAOC to run a bot I buy a 2nd computer, a 2nd copy of the game, a 2nd internet conection, and a 2nd monthly subscription. In Tanki if I want to be a buy I can spend $20 and get all the supplies I can use for 2-3 months. To be a bot user in DAOC I have to pay hundreds of dollars for the PC and then pay 50-100 dollars extra each moth for the 2nd line and subscription. So that is why I am not overly worried about buyers. If it really really came down to it about 5 dollars a month would buy me all the drug support I'd need. The bot problem in DAC was far more rich/poor and the impact was also far far greater. I don't buy the drug jits simply because the game is less fun with non-stop power-ups. Same reason I've never turned on "god mode" on a PS/XBox console game.

The ability to pay twenty dollars does not convert a poor player into a good one.

I'm trying but I cannot manage to get dominated so far. I fully back the idea of supplies. My objections on functionality really boil down to the DD/DA supplies. 1) They are simplistic. 2) They may be simplistic but their single simple function is phenomenally powerful compared to the differnces between, say, m1 and m2 gea, or MU stages. 3) Yes despite all this power if two enemies use them both they cancel each other out. It as is they were never used at all. So these things are either dominating a skirmish or completely canceled out. There simply has to be a more interesting system. The Repair Kit is a good item but there are three times as many of them in a supplies kit as there should be. That would restore teh 3:1 valuare ration and supply kit buying would not be very worrisome. Speed-ups and Mines are only as beneficial as the player using them. A rotten driver going 40% faster is probably an even worse driver. Chance DA/DD to something that feeds into the plauyer's own skill levels like speedups do. Then Tanki would be ahead. I do find it amazing how many Tanki players hate this feature. Most players like getting power-ups. But this system is lame. I find it hard to understand why Tanki does not address this widespread disconttent..

BlavkWasp suggested a color-coding symbol key for the Pro settings. Something that is easilly searchable by eye. That and the multi-server serch funstion are reallly needd. I hope Tanki is actuallt working on them.

If you cannot find a scenario in the PRO section where every variable is under your control then the problem is not with the PRO section. You can spend real money to speed up the ranking climb. It's called a Premium Pass. Which is not the same thing as a PRO Pass. The Premium Pass costs real money. The PRO Pass costs pretend money that is useful only in the game ... for buying things like PRO passes. You keep saying the PRO Pass is there to "make money", But it does not cost money. It costs an item what does not really exist, which is a pretend thing: Crystals. A Pro Pass does not cost money. A Pro Pass does not cost money. A Pro Pass does not cost money. A Pro Pass does not cost money. A Pro Pass does not cost money. A Pro Pass does not cost money.

I think ... I know some of the increased drugging in standard battles is from players trying to finish in 1st place.(missions) It's easier now to win a battle straight up than it is to pick through the servers looking for the ol' lopsided game about to end. And that 1st place mission seems to pop up just about every day now, for most if not all my accounts. Now that the map missions are gone... This ids just a small thought I wanted to toss out into the forum before I forgot.

No, he is clearly complaining about the long-term situation. Players have no freedom to chose is his claim. It's just emotional nonsiense. He's venting not making sense. At every given instant, some players in Tanki have recently bought something and thus are low on CR... for the time being. That is never a reason to avoid a new software version. Dan, exactly what "win" are you being denied for you non-buyer status? Really. What exactly are you prevented from doing? I see no point to Tanki except logging on and for 15 or 30 minutes I am focused on winning a tactical puzzle. What to do to win this game? As long as it is a close game it is fun. Fun is the point. And then the daily missions add to the sense of objective. The point is your goals are your goals. What buyers do cant really stop you from your goals. And now you can buy a Pro Pass and eliminate all buyer advatages if you want. If all the players who complained about druggers and buyer actually used the new system, they could avoid all the objects of their complaints. But they do not even try it. Hmmmm. Time will remedy this. I

The reason so many games are played on so few maps has nothing to do with "liking" those maps. What players "like" is big CR and Exp gains. That is what all those maps chare. Tanks die fast so the battle pool goes up. And that is the fault of the game system. The payout system gives larger exp and Cry awards to the least interesting, least skillful situations. Some players want a good game not just to power-level. Those players were not given a choice. 75% of the Standard games we power-level games. There would be maybe 3 battlse of all types on the Pro ;list. Now everyone has a choice. The standard battles are now 10-20 times as varied as they were before. The power-leveling games are still there ... all you have to do is obtain a Pro Pass and problem solved! It costs you a few Cr. In exchange you can power-;level which more than pays for the Pass. So, either be a stupid, dumb, poor Tanki player or learn how to play the game under the new rules and be a good player. That's how gaming works.

I think every player will produce a different list ... and they may all be fairly correct. Because we all play Tanki under different conditions. I avoid meatgrinder scenarios, I_AREADY_WON cannot be found on any map but Rio, and so forth. Then throw in all the other variables. We each have our own lens on the game. :) By which I mean, I see Smoky protection fairly often.

Another case of "I'll quit rather than apply 1% of my pretend money on anew game feature". SSDD. I remain unimpressed. EDIT: This guy has spent Cr on these paints: Rhino, Chainmail, Desert, Invader. And he's gonna quit the game over a 3,300 Cr Pro Pass. Neither smart nor believable. I call your bluff: Quit. :mellow: (Yeah I know he probably got paints in a kit. You still are paying for them even at a discount.)

You have the freedom to choose to buy a Pro Pass. You have the freedom to pout.

Osteo strike! *Actually that happened seveal years ago ... don't play hide and seek in a graveyard.)

Ohhhhhh SNAP!

LOL. You do not have so much as a square Angstrom of legal ground on which to stand. You paid for Crystals, you got Crystals. Now if you want to pay more to lawyers, I am sure they will be happy to take your money form you.