I did not know that. I was going off the values from the playtest server. Thank you! I hid the OP. Well well. A little bit less ThunkeyTown than I thought. :)

Forgive me for going back to Isida but there's something I'd like to be sure of regarding the self-heal. As I've posted I am having a good time with my new Stinger kit. And I freely admit having m2 gear puts me at a matchup advantage if I make sure to enter games at my rank level or lower. Anyway I've had some good runs with the Isida, killing 4-5 enemies in rapid order each time and of course yes heavy drug use was involved. Let's say there is a case like this. The Isida drops into an enemy pair with DD active and carnage ensues. Assume the Isida gets surprise on the first victim who does not have much time to fight back. But his friend does after a moment. So the first few seconds of self-heal do nothing because our heroic Isida is still un-wounded. Then the enemy shells start landing as the Isida destroys them one by one until one side is left. Assume every tank has 1000 hit points. The Isisda of course has a 10% self heal. I hope I am right when I say that means 10% of the hit points dealt out are used to repair any existing damage to the Isida hull. So we have Surprise! Isida has Enemy 1 down to 500 HP before the counter-attacks start landing. Enemy 1 and 2 both pop a DA at this point and start shooting back Tank 1 now has 1000 HP left and Tank 2 2000 HP. Tank 1 dies after 1,000 more damage. Isida has added back 100 HP the counter-attacks did. Tank 2 dies after the Isida does 2000 more damage. Isida has added back a total of 300 HP 300 HP have been earned back, or 30% of the Isida's total health. That's a third of a Repair Kit. The Isida lives on with < 100 HP remaining. The difference is that small 10% kept it alive. For that battle, the Isda hull had 1300 HP not 1000. That is the advantage in head to head combat no other turret gives - the hull is stronger than advertised. So that small 10% actually adds up to a sizable portion of the hull's total strength. The percentage effect is more noticeable with a small Isida killing a large enemy. Say a 1600 HP m3 light Isida kills a 4000 HP m4 heavy. The m4 heavy pops a DA giving it 8,000 HP. In killing the heavy the light Isida gains back 800 HP which is 800/1600= 50% of the entire hull strength. I know these are really special examples. Most times the effect will be a smaller percentage than 50%, but OTOH almost always it will be greater than 10%. Self-heal it is still there and in some battles it still tips the contest to the Isida. DM might not be the strongest mode ofr an Idida but they are not helpless. Every hull and turret is going to have a mission type they like least of all. Everyone will have one missoin type they are happy to trade in for a different one.

Tanki's announcement on this Battle button is, at least, encouraging. Small differences between turrets and hulls is not the problem with this game. Finding a good game is the problem. I just went through the two biggest EN servers and cannot find a non-poly non-Noise game at my Rank level. I don't feel like spending 5-10 minutes going thru every server like I have to do all to often. Let's hope the Battle Button helps.

Since I am here typing . . . I had a fight today in the Rio alley. An ally Mammoth blocked my escape route while I had the flag. While we were starting to untangle an enemy freeze opened fire, from the other side of the mammy. I tucked in behind it and eventually had a safe shot or two over the mammy shoulder. The mamy was beat up but lived and I was unwounded. So that blocking effect does work if you have the right conditions to remain screened from a fire/freeze I felt sorata guilty for stealing the flag so I amde sure to give the next one I snagged to the mammy. Poor slow things. :)

I'm convinced the difference between the 3 medium hulls comes down to personal preferences. Especially with respect to the turret used. After the last couple days gaving played the new system for awhile, after a lot of upgrading via kits, the MUS sales, and the Halloween sale (in that order of significance for me) ... I gotta say I love the current Viking hull. Today I realized I don't head-butt enemy tank like I used to. But its so fast and responsive. The Smoky turret is a bit sluggish but the combo still works great. And with the extra speed I've stumbled onto some new moves I've never seen before. :ph34r: Ditto driving Hornet. Now full-time with Isida it is a rush to drive when I'm in the zone. Titan on a speed boost handles much like the old Viking except even tougher (than the old Viking). It is not as tough as it used to be but now it is quite nimble. I usually dig speed but there are days I prefer Titan's smooth steady ride as I ride over hapless foes popping at with their .pea-shooters. Which leaves Vulcan/Wasp. I just committed to this combo during Halloween It is great fun combo when I remember how to drive and fight. I need more practice driving Wasp but it's great fun when it's going well. :)

Yeah I agree the critical is still very low compared to before. But I knew it went down over range since they put in the little damage numbers thingie. So that part at least is not new info for me. Where I was wrong was in thinking the crit hit was 9% above a regular hit at point blank range ... which is where I do a lot of my fighting. I was wrong. It does 30% more than than a typical shot at point-blank range. Anyway to get to the point. Before my rule of thumb was that the CritHit function gave Smoky an 1.8% DPS bump (as compared to eliminating it via the Alteration). The correct number is a 6% bump. That in turn means using the Alteration sacrifices even more DPS than I'd thought. It also means that Smoky's CritHit function still has a bit of bite. Landing 30% more at one time is something. And every so often you'll get two in a row. So thanks BlackWasp for the complete picture!

I'm pretty sure Hammer's damage is variable, what with how the Wiki talks about damage from individual pellets hitting. Maybe the damage of each pellet is a constant? But the number of pellets hitting varies? Duh should have just kept reading Hammer pellets deal a constant damage (no gauss curve) and have the maxDmgRange / minDmgRange model. But at longer ranges some of the pellets simply miss the target. I have no estimtion for the effect on real battlefield, as I never was too much into hammer

Yes this is exactly the Thunder issue in graphic form. Andabout Smoky not thunder. But thunder's profile looks the same I will wager - just with different damage values.

Thank you for this. It would seem that much of the confusin come from the fact the rems "max damage" and min damage" are used to describe two different concepts: There is a bell-curve-ish distribution to any give shot at any given range (man / min). And there is a max dmage range and a min damage range - and the extended "mind damage" range of 10% ... I think if they had thought of more distrinctinve names there'd been less confusion, But annnnyway, thanks for this. It makes results understandable. And it also shows why the smoky m2 'impact alteration' cost more DPS than I'd assumed! 50k for less damage you say? Well well ... NO DEAL! :P

I think I missed some of the posting here recently so I am sorry if you took my posting as a persnal attack. I offered those numbers on supplies use in an attempt to show you that - while you assumed your personal drug use was about average - it is really on the high side. Your opinions are 100% valid just as are mine. I just wanted to show you that your experiences are based on what is probably high-than-average use of supplies. Whereas my experiences are based on what is probably lower-than average use of supplies. What is most intersting to me is this: In every other game I'v played most players enjoy "power-ups". There is so much dislike for "drugging" in Tanki because Tanki's power-ups are deigned poorly - IMO. They detract more from the game than they enhance it. Tanki should not take them out but they should be re-deigned.

I solved that dilemma by having my Smoky main and bought m1 Wasp/Vulcan for my alt on Halloween. I'd used Vulcan quite a bit before, but it was only after the update and after I put it on the Wasp that I was sold on it. But you are right, Vulcan can be a beast. So can Smoky too, heh.

I encountered exactly two non-drug games in three week sof PRO passes. And one of those games broke up right away when a player kept crying for a gold box. You can't drop a gold box in a no-drug game, so that one broke up. So one game in a half-month. That is what a PRO Pass gets you. That is not an answer. I do not object to haveing power-ups in the game. I objext to poorly-designed power-ups. And Tanki could do a lot better.

Fair enough re: the word dominant. I used that owrd not because I meant to seem to be quoting you (or BlackWasp) but because many comments posted here seem to consider DM as the only scenario. Or put another way, it is to be expected that a turret so strong in team play would naturally be weaker at solo play. In a similar vein I know I do not fear a Shaft tank that is 40m away. But I sure as hell look for cover when I encounter one that is 150m away. Yet no one comes out and says Shaft should be good vel opponents at point-blank ranges. As I said I have no real problems in DM with Isida. No more than I had as a m1 Viking/Smoky user in the Lieutenant ranks when m2 versions were available to most other turrets and hulls. DM matches were rough for me and I CHANGED out of them whenever I could. The experiences are similar albeit at different ranges. With both weapons it is common to inflict some damage but not kill the foe before he got away. That's no probs in a team game but you need the killing shot to get credit for a DM kill. Before I upgraded I did a DM against the highest opponent rank setting possible and I made sure to not use a single Supply during the match. came out with a K/D of something like 0.8 or 0.9. It was not great, but I certainly held my own drug-free and against higher ranks So I am left to conclude that it is entirely fair to say ya don't fun the new Isida fun. But I cannot think of any game-play evidence that says the turret is inherently ineffective.

Well, I checked out profiles. You have roughly 2.5 the experience points, number of kills, and number of deaths as I, You have used 24,420 supplies with th emost-used supply being 10,485 DA. 6,374 Repair kits were used. LittleWillie has used 2,828 Supplies with the most used being 803 DA. 93 of the expensive Repair kits were used. LittleWillie has 1,820 supplies still available and unused. So that means in just under 400,00 exp LittleWillie has gathered in 2,828 + 1,820 = 4,648 off all types of supplies in his career. Multiply that by 2.5 to bring him up to 1,000,000 exp and he'd have earned 11,620 supplies by then. In comparison to that 11,620 of all types, you've used al,most the same number 10,485, just on DA alone. You used more Repair kits than I have earned for all 5 supply types! I am not passing judgement on you. As you say it is part of the game. But you could not have gotten all those Repair Kits just from doing daily mssions. So you are a buyer. Which is OK. I just want to point out to you that your experience in the game is drastically different from non-buyers. Your quiet assumption that excessive drugging is an option open to all players is simply wrong. Look at the numbers.

Exactly. Team battles. Team battles are why the turret exists. Game balance demands that a turret that is often the decisive factor in team play CANNOT also be dominant in solo play. Or else everyone would just use that one turret. Wait! That's exactly where we were headed before the update. As you pointed out, Isidas are successful in terms of earning. As you pointed out, success pretty much means no caring about K/D. Many players just will not find successful Isida play to be fun. That is fine. To each his own eh? But don't ask for an OP turret because it is not the right turret for you in the first place. Myself, I find Isida fun. BrittleWillie began life as a Firebird. By m1_19/50 I got bored with spawning, killing 1-3 enemies, dying, them repeating it all. So I bought an m1 Isida. Last week I committed fully to the change by buying the m2 Isida kit. I was able to MU it to 9/50 over the weekend and had 37 Cry left. So BrittleWillie is all in on the new Isida. I would not have done that if Isida was not fun! There is much more to consider in the healer role, more to observe and process ... and that leads to more fun.

You've raised this point many times but I still do not follow. Exactly hos does a 50% self-heal function help against long-rage enemies who are too far away for you to counterattack? The new Isida and the old Isida are exactly the same in this regard. If all the Isida players you see do nothing but park and heal then the answer is clear: those players suck. That should not come as a surprise. I see may players who suck operating all types of tanks.

There's no question that having m2 gear at WO5 is an advantage. But I should also add that since I got the m2 gear, I can mow enter battles against Majors and do so. So with the new gear also came better opponents.) Also: I kicked ass with my m1 gear I just replaced. Your explanation? The point is, you either like playing the role of team healer or you don't. You can either read the batlefield and go where you can make the most difference, or you can't. You either understand that your role includes taking shots so other tanks can live, or you don't. You either find it fun to race across the battlefield, take aramp at speadd soar over your ally tank to land in a sheltered ledge and heal him just before he dies. Or you don't find it fun. You either find it fun to keep two ally tanks up and firing in the middle of the enemy base for 2, 3, even 4 drug cycles while enemy corpses pile up around you - or you do not find it fun. At the end of the battle, by Isida EARN Exp and Cry. That is the measure of success in this game. The measure is not, the one team-based turret must also excel at solo combat. But I do agree, many players took Isida for only one reason: they wanted to kill enemy tanks directly. Well that was never the design intent for a team-based turret. So the fact a lot of kill-only players have dropped Isida is - frankly - a Good Thing. These players belong in the other 10 turrets which are all intended to kill as Role #1. Now every Isida player I see is one I also see healing allies not one charging past my wounded tank in their lust to attack enemy.

And yet, when I actually play the game, I kick ass. Maybe it's because I am not hampered by memories of how an Isida is "supposed" to work and be played? I dunno. I just do what works. And it works fiiiiiiine. I just finished my daily missions which included 300 pts in DM and Destroy 40 tanks. I ended the DM with 20 kills and 6 losses ... yeah a 3.33 K/D ratio sucks. I esailly killed the other 10 tanks in a Dusseldorph CTF game. Is the experience different at higher levels? I cannot speak to that. But from what I hear from you Gizmos and Legends, everything about the game is worse at higher levels. more mults, more non-stop drugging. I seriously doubt one parameter on the Isida hull is reposnsible for all that. Losing self heal means only one thing. The Isida hull cannot just keep killing and healing and killing and healing until a swarm of foes manage to take it down. Now Isida has to do its job as best it can before an enemy kills it ... just like every other tank in the game!

I just had a blast playing 4 games on Rio with my brand-new Stinger kit on my BrittleWillie account. Finished 1st or 2nd every game. Then played a 30-minute Opposition game that I absolutely reigned over. Or I should say myself and a 2nd Isida reingned over that game. The enemy had 2-3 Freeze tanks and we ate them up all game long. Yum. There's nothing wrong with the turret - unless you are a DM-only player. Then yeah it is not super-powerful. I do think that Tanki should have done a better job in crediting players who ended up with turrets they no longer like. Not liking the turret is one thing. To each his own. But the turret itself is very playable.

Wasp Maneuvers Matter

15 is a certainty. I have about 50k I'm NOT spending on a Smoky alteration . . . :)

Well, for once I correctly anticipated a Tanki sale. I bought two kits over the last 10 days. Glad I did not MU the new gear but saved up for a sale instead. 70% speedup discounts, me like. The shorter battle thing? Not sure about that one yet.

I don't. I'm sad that I could no long avoid that 390,000th experience point that made LittleWillie a Major. :wacko:

The particular kit that specific account would get unlocks at Capt. So... earliest way for that account to convert to Titan m2 would be at capt ... I meant. In the meantime a Titan m1 20/50 is Godzilla at WO. And that "meantime" will probably last several months, so I am getting my MUing money's worth. That's that angle I was trying to communicate.

This is a fair article but it is good advice only to certain gamers. This article might speak to the power-gamer but it does not speak to me, the daily-missioner. (I should say at the start that one should only MU "strongly" during sales. I will buy low level MU steps off sale, up to at least 5. But most of the work must be done at sale prices.) What is a quick turnaround for the next "m-level" on your equipment? To a power-gamer it might "only be 4-5 ranks". To the daily missioner, the number of ranks isn't important. It is the number of experience points. Once you are into the officer ranks, 4-5 levels can mean months or a year of real-time. As daily missioner, my view on MUing is that I can benefit from those upgrades for months of real time. So do it the sooner the better. I MU all new gear up to step 5 at least as soon as I get it. Another point I differ from the author is in appropriate equipment. ANY turret or hull that has a long gap between m-levels is a perfect candidate to MU. Titan m1 comes very early and m2 at Colonel. There's a big gap from Wasp m1 t m2. Also from Hornet m2 to m3. Vulcan m2 to m3. All these are great candidates to MU. Each MU step buys a lot. I have been playing with an m1 20/50 Titan on an account for 2-3 months. It is a bull in a china shop, game after game. It is still a WO (not much longer) so it is not even halfway thru the exp to reach the earliest m2 kit-buying Rank, Captain. I can upgrade that Titan to probably m1 40/50 and still have enough Cr for my kit at Captain. That means for the next 6-8 months I will benefit from having good gear now instead of saving everything for later. So for players who level up gradually, MUing offers quite a bit. But maybe not as much for players who buy CR, or get power-leveled, or otherwise races as hard as possible to Legend rank.