Thunder can get score for an assist as well. What's your point in this example? Using splash damage radius alone to determine the effectiveness of a turret is not good enough. You can weaken the target with your shot while the other enemy is damaging them. This can also get you a kill steal. Reload matters because of what I'm saying below. I said how it doesn't always = to a kill. Many times, I would shoot my Magnum shell at them. It would do massive damage but the enemy ends up stealing the kill because you didn't do enough damage. Another thing is that Magnum has a damage range with 1,170 numbers in between them assuming you get a direct hit and not a splash hit. You can either get high damage, average damage or low damage. You DON'T know the amount of HP your enemy has. For all you know, they could have 300 health remaining. For all you know, they could have 2,300 HP remaining. You aren't an all-seeing eye; if you turn a corner and see two players fighting, you can't immediately know that they're both on low health. You have to GUESS. This is where high damage can fail. If the enemy has high HP, then you take away a large portion of their HP which leaves them open to being killed by the other target. You won't reload fast enough to take the kill before the other enemy takes it. In theory, high damage is better but you have to look at all situations instead of just one. It seems as if you fell victim to the misconception of the alterations changes. Please know that the alteration only changes the maximum damage range. It DOES NOT change the minimum damage range. At mid-range, you are still doing above minimum damage (If you didn't understand: you are still doing within your damage range, just not on the higher end). Most MM maps allow Thunder to be within the minimum damage range. Hmmm, then why are players using that instead of the Stock Version? Why do you need to play with an alteration? What is the point of playing with alterations, huh? The Stock counterparts are supposed to perform the same as its altered counterparts yet that isn't the case, especially with Sledgehammer Thunder vs Stock Thunder. What determines the greatness of an alteration, huh? What makes one alteration better than the others?

You're using Mouse controls. I like using them in the Test Server with Shaft. I think your suggestion would complicate things a bit and Shaft would need a buff in some parameters to accompany this change.

I love it when it spawns me right in the path of my killer. :wub: I love it even more when it does it 3 times in a row and on the third time, my killer uses his/her Overdrive. :wub: :wub: :wub:

Striker, especially with the Uranium alteration, is an interesting case with this occurrence. Sometimes, if you're facing the Stock Striker and it finishes locking onto you and it fires its 4 missiles, it would look smooth as you take the damage. What if the Striker was a good distance away and you were heading for cover while swaying away from being directly in front of it? You would see that maybe only one missile impacts you but you receive 3 missiles' worth of damage. On the Striker's screen, 3 of their 4 missiles hit you and deal damage but it would not look like that to you because the servers have to process the information and send it to you. With Uranium, the projectile speed is lower. With Stock Striker, you would see the missiles coming to you and you would receive damage for each missile just before its respective missile touches you. The same thing for Uranium, except the projectile speed is lower. The moment it impacts you on the Striker's screen is where it is really close to impacting you on your screen. You may have your camera angle very close to your tank which may not allow it to see right behind it. Note that the missiles target where the laser was at last when the reticle finishes. If the laser was at the far back of your hull, then the missiles would go there and there would be a better chance you would experience the "damaged by invisible rockets" phenomenon. The angular velocity is somewhat strong for Striker so it's likely that the missiles would impact you are harsh angles. You played Ricochet for 305 hours. Has there ever been an occurrence where you died and that one last ball you sent out didn't do any damage to the enemy? Well on the enemy's screen, that ball did not come out. I hope this helps you in the future. More players need to be aware of this because they call others hackers because this phenomenon happens which I find ignorant as this happens in the General ranks as well.

Oops, my bad. I forgot you could rock your hull forward or backwards to gain some more height. Assuming you hit a direct hit...which is relatively hard to achieve. Sledgehammer allows you to just point, shoot and it's an instant hit. Would it?

I'm talking about an enemy Sledgehammer Thunder disrupting your repair kit, not vice versa. Impact force has nothing to do with this since the factor here is reload speed. I used Lost Temple as an example because of its size to lay emphasis on my point. Too many times I've seen Sledgehammer Thunders steal kills from players. It's not like the damage is cut by 60-70% you know. Thunder itself is strong and needs constant (but not too much) protection against it to be balanced. Higher damage doesn't always mean a better chance of stealing kills. It all comes down to the situation, the amount of protection the targets have and the amount of HP they have left which, for the latter, you can't see. This alteration is in no way balanced. A faster firing rate can make up for the decrease in damage. Decreasing the intervals between your shots potentially increases your chances of kill-stealing. We must be getting completely different battles. On average, out of 5 Thunders in a Legend battle, 4 of them are Sledgehammer Thunders while one is a Stock user. What's the end result every time? The Sledgehammers outperform the Stock Thunders. Even in Non-Legend battles (From Colonel to Generalissimo), the number of Sledgehammer Thunders has been increasing recently. I don't know. Maybe it's because they see others using it, dominating their enemies and they want to do the same with their Thunder? In Dm battles, Brigadiers with M2 Thunder (Possibly 10/10) with this alteration often come in the top 3. Why do you think it is the most popular alteration, huh? Duplet was and still is the most popular Hammer alteration. What did/does that say about Duplet? Uranium was and still is the most popular Striker alteration. What did/does that say about Uranium? Incendiary Band is the most popular alteration for Vulcan. What does that say about Incendiary Band? Round Destabilisation was and still is one of the most popular Railgun alterations. What does that say about Round Destabilisation? People flock towards what is the most powerful and helps them to dominate the battles. I keep that there just to refresh my opposition's memory of my stance. Another thing is that I've been complaining about this alteration for a while but players kept telling me that nothing was wrong with it. To stop the Sledgehammer plague, I must inform everyone of its one-ups against Stock Thunder. Also, I didn't quote anyone. I just said my long posts and my long post usually have a short conclusion for the people who skim through. I can stop it in this debate just for you if you'd like. :)

Thunder has auto-aim; Magnum does not. You have to actually aim with Magnum using the degrees. At 0 degrees, you're not gonna be hitting anything that's not within self-damage range. You need to increase the degrees to about 4-7 degrees for mid-range combat. Magnum has a projectile that requires to travel a distance before hitting the target. Thunder impacts immediately. It's even worse to try to hit something with 100% power and a relatively low degree angle from across the map. Magnum needs time to charge up to 100% to be able to reach maximum projectile speed. That's at least 2 seconds and at most 3 seconds of charging when a Thunder could shoot twice in that time. Magnum simply cannot become a Thunder.

Since when did they say they were fixing it? Can you show me where?

Yes, and they said nothing about it being returned to a 50% increase in damage.

Only this morning did I realise the significance of the increased minimum sniping damage from the Short-Band emitters alteration. In this one, if I wasn't in the right mind, even I might have thought I was hacking. Heavy Capacitors is still my preferred setup but I'm finally warming up to Short-Band Emitters. I always thought it gave me a negligible increase in arcade damage but it's much more. I have some screenshots and an explanation of some interesting things that happened after my Tanki Client had an error in a previous battle that I'll post later.

And what's worse? They said nothing about the damage change. They've been f-ing up Firebird's status since Halloween and it's just making me furious that it's still continuing after so many complaints.

I see some in the Lieutenant ranks; they are usually from kits. The heavy majority are Vikings followed by Hunters.

It also disrupts repair kits faster than most of the other turrets. Please know that this affects all projectile-based turrets. By that, I mean turrets such as Twins, Ricochet, Striker and Magnum. Sometimes, it would look as if it missed but still did damage on your screen but on the enemy's screen, it hit you and did damage. This happens almost every time I go against a Ricochet. Most of the projectiles would go behind me but I still get damage. I know that's perfectly fine because that has to do with each participant's ping. That mechanic is too broken because it trumps Stock Hammer by using the element of surprise. M4 Hammer needs two shots to kill any unprotected M4 hull. With Duplet, you can fart those two shots out 0.27 seconds apart compared to Stock M4 Hammer's 1.8-second interval. This is why you see Duplets commonly getting kills with each clip they empty. I saw something in the Test Server that looked like a balance change for this alteration. What it would do is it would deal regular Vulcan damage but when it started to overheat, it would no longer do direct damage but it would heat up the tank. When you're overheating, the only damage you'll be doing is afterburn damage. This change could be good or bad if it's implemented but we can only wait and see.

I like to think that they catered those alterations for MM battles. Let's look at it like this: Some players say that Stock Smoky is better than Autocannon Smoky. Well, Autocannon Smoky is better at 1 v 1 supply combat as it disrupts the repair kit far faster than any of Smoky's other alterations and its Stock Version. Let's look at Stock M4 Thunder. If you time your repair kit properly, you can receive about 3,250 HP from it before the Thunder shoots again. With Sledgehammer Thunder, if you time your repair kit properly you can receive about 2,500 HP from it before the Thunder shoots again. This makes Sledgehammer Thunder immediately better in 1 v 1 supply combat situations. Let's look at another aspect players overlook when comparing Stock Thunder to Sledgehammer Thunder. The maximum damage range is reduced but the minimum damage range STAYS THE SAME. So anywhere between >5 metres in front of you and <150 metres, you'll be doing within the minimum damage. I've compared this with Stock Thunder a good while ago somewhere. While Stock Thunder can kill it "faster", Sledgehammer Thunder can survive the encounter potentially longer. Reason being its high impact force. There's a considerable difference between getting punched every 2.3 seconds and getting punched every 1.61 seconds. I've seen teammate and enemy light hulls struggle against Sledgehammer Thunders because they are getting impacted far faster than normal and it barely gives them time to realign their course onto the Thunder before they get hit off course again. Lastly, the icing on the cake is Thunder's weak damage. It's 50% which is a lot, especially when you're hitting people all the way across a map like Highways or Lost Temple. If they do the same damage after minimum damage range, then Sledgehammer will be victorious because of its 30% reload decrease. Being able to hit more often allows for more score being generated by assists. All you have to do is touch an enemy for 1 damage and you can get 5 score from an assist. With an increased firing rate, Sledgehammer has a better chance of stealing kills and getting assists. You can't say that it's OP if there are so many players using it over Stock Thunder. Look at Duplet before its nerf. NO ONE was using Slugger. NO ONE was using High-Capacity Drum. NO ONE was using Adaptive Reload. They were only using Duplet and they were topping the battles like crazy. Because of the way Stock Hammer competes against each hull, Duplet's mechanic will always be broken unless changed again. I've had so many battles where a random Sledgehammer Thunder kicks off with 5 kills in the first 30 seconds because of that firing rate; not to mention its splash damage which is great for kill stealing in DM battles. Long story short: Sledgehammer rounds is broken and needs to be fixed.

From Wounded Warrior's video. Did you not see the screenshot in the spoiler message? It did 525 damage per tick with double damage which equates to 2,100 damage per second which is basically 1050 per second which is equivalent to a 50% increase in damage from 700 damage which is M4 Firebird's direct damage. They are not being transparent with their changes and it's pissing me off. It has: More damage than Isida and Freeze More ammunition than Isida and Freeze Faster Reload than Isida and Freeze And can shoot through multiple enemies, unlike Isida. I healed a guy who had that alteration and he made 37 kills. I could have sworn I took a screenshot but I didn't. With a 10% increase, the damage is just under what Stock firebird would do + afterburn damage that occurred during the spraying. With a 50% increase, that totally trumps that.

Finished my Top 3 on the winning team x15 mission and got 125 speed boosts when all I needed at that moment was at least repair kits or double damages.

Heh, can we take this to the Let's Discuss Thunder or Game Balance? Speaking my part here: If you're a Legend Thunder user and you're not using Sledgehammer rounds, you're throwing the game; enough said. That is how better it is than Stock Thunder. (It's exaggerated but my point still stands)

Because it's 50%, not 10%.

I like doing it to a specific person. It's usually a Dictator or a Viking. Many golds would drop in the battle and I would kill them before they could get to it in time. Pisses people off so much.

Why is that Hammer's Viking thiccer than yours?

I was in this Tribute CTF battle yesterday on the Blue team (I can't remember if it was red or blue, it's the team that isn't on the elevated platform) where my Juggler Kit teammate had the flag and was underneath the bridge. We were constantly getting killed and also killing the flag holder on the enemy team and returning it but that Juggler Kit guy just kept driving forward and backward underneath the bridge. He held that flag for 4 minutes until suddenly going to cap it. Then, he went on to go into the enemy base and massacre them with his Ricochet while capturing another flag and he came 2nd place with 5 points above me who was getting all the kills to assist my teammates in escaping unscathed. Basically, this guy technically multed for 4 minutes only to come 2nd place because of his equipment. We can't even hold a pattern to stereotypes because we can now have tryhard mults coming in first with the right equipment after pooping on their team for the majority of the battle.

I had posted this in the "Let's Discuss Firebird" thread but I'm posting it here so it can get more recognition. I'll put it in a spiler so it won't look tedious to read like my 1k+ word posts.

High-rank battles are becoming too tedious if you don't have specific protection or aren't using the overpowered alterations.

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