In roughly two seconds a drugging M3 Hammer can deal 3600 damage. Even a Viking with DA is dead in 4 seconds. That's not bad...

It seems there are not many kits at all showing in garage. How many cycles are there now?

Well said. An isida within range of a "long range" turret should be able to beat it, all other things being equal. That's how it works - at it's basics the combat is rock-paper-scissors. Also, as a short-range turret an Isida should be able to compete against other short-range turrets. However against Firebird, Freeze and even Hammer it does not fare well at all. When others state the Isida should (just?) be a support turret they really pigeon-hole it. That means it can only ever do well in Team games, and it must have team members nearby to heal. On teams of 2-3 how the heck is it gonna have enough people to heal? On a team with wasps that are running around it would look absolutely stupid for an Isida to chase around team-mates to heal. LMAO.

We may not agree on Isida, but we can agree on this. :)

Would be nice if there were a variety of maps and battles there. Too bad opposite isn't true - that normal battles have the options for no supplies and Pro Battles (where the "pros" are) have the supply wars. But I understand why tanki does it this way - to make money. They figure more non-buyers will become buyers as they get reckt by "buyers". And some "buyers" might stop buying if they did not have non-buyers to beat up combat with.

"no question"... based on your user experience? So now you're changing your argument? "Use supplies"? I prefer not to engage in supply wars as I don't buy supplies. I use the ones I get for free when I need to. But going down this rout "buyers" will take the lions share of winnings. That's not a good solution.

Is twins listed damage per ball? So 2 balls hitting target does 2x the listed damage?

All of these details with twins vs isida are valid points. But consider... The twins can damage isida before it gets in range of it's vampire - sometimes killing it without a fight back. Twins never run out of ammo. Isida can suck life for a limited time. then it is helpless.

Yes. Look at my profile and see how much experience and hours I have with the turret. I'm average at best - but - I have the hours. I know how it performed before the update (without drugs = well, but hardly OP). I know how it performs after the update (without drugs = it dies often). You keep mentioning m0 and m1. I don't think we are comparing the same thing.

Of course it's not your fault... or... is it... ? :ph34r: Rail can't heal itself - but now neither can isida. The 10% heal = nothing. I know this as I've used my M3 while being damaged and the health bar barely moves at all. If I damage opponent for 523 damage I gain back 52 health. in 4 seconds = 208. During that 4 seconds a rail will do 2700 damage. Against a Firebird it's even worse. I never asked for Isida to "gain anything". I never implied it did not need to be tweaked. The fact is the self-healing was reduced by 80%. That's huge. Lowering the self-heal from 50% down to 30% or even 25% would have been more reasonable.

I guess it depends on the map and the alignment of the tanks. Assume medium-long range else of course short-range turrets (of any kind) would have huge advantage. Isidas run out of juice - especially if they start healing a distance from the enemy.

You sound so sure. <_< Maybe those rails were not as good as you think. "given the ability to deal damage to enemies" by definition means it is not just for support. Heals too yes. If you happened to play with isidas that did not heal your team well that happens. Just like other tanks may be running around collecting supply boxes for missions while ignoring the actual battle. That happens too. Fault is in the player, not the tank.

As designed Isida was not meant solely for "support". And tankers bought it based on fact it could compete on it's own. By same token, a team of 4-5 rails could knock those 4-5 isidas out (even pre-update). Co-ordinated strikes would easily defeat their healing power - especially from a distance.

Yes. The decrease is 31% off the already discounted item price (not original item price). So if kit is 50% off, you save (31% from 50%) or an additional 15% off listed item price.

"If you don't like them play pro battles." Except... there are not many of these battles to choose from. It's not much of an option.

I agree. takes loner to cap in large maps and with less contact with other tanks due to distances, the battle fund is not high enough. Everyone wants crystals and thus the Polygon / Noise abbatoirs. Spawn-kill-die. Rinse. Repeat.

Easier said than done. IF one has Isida as only M3, it is now harder to "expand our garage". Believe me I'm trying. And with new rules for M3 unlock we need to wait longer, or buy a kit. Closer to Guardian Kit now...

At M3 plus armor is the same :(

It's ridiculous how similar they have made the two hulls. Depends on if you prefer a little bit more speed vs a little bit more acceleration. And if you like/don't like Hornet's drift...

Can't argue that... ;)

I've seen shaft (and rail) go in Polygon and get tons of kills. Mind you they hit DD at each respawn so take that with a grain of salt.

Sure - short range turrets do not do as well on larger maps. Same as other short-range turrets in that aspect. However my main point was addressing the level - I have found Freeze to be OP not just in lower ranks. It is dominating battles at upper ranks as well.

I stand corrected - listed std damage is equal, but... Was playing in Noise last night vs tankers that had Freeze M3 (+ ?). It was killing in seconds. Tanks could not escape. It was ugly...

They cut your damage in half (or more)? Are you sure? Ps... you gained a faster reload time as you mention above. What did Isida gain for losing self-heal, healing and range?

Freeze M3/M4 does same damage as Firebird now, and brings tanks to a complete standstill. Repair kit lasts... 2 seconds? Then freezing takes effect again. There are a lot more freezes now at ranks Generals+ because it dominates - especially on smaller maps.